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Post by calien on Aug 16, 2019 0:19:29 GMT
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 16, 2019 0:45:23 GMT
I might want to place it more in line with German or Austrian designs before Russian and Polish. The Scabbard mount seems a little French to me, can you tell what the script on the blade says?
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Post by calien on Aug 16, 2019 0:54:21 GMT
It loos like a name E. Lafremie Roneu and on the other side (a leige) or something like that. Very hard to see, Im debating on buying it just not sure what it is and I dont want to pull the trigger without knowing. Ive spent a few days trying to find anything similar to it but Im sort of new at this and my resources are limited, so thank you very much for the help.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 1:36:39 GMT
Welcome aboard for the moment www.ebay.com/itm/NAPOLEONIC-WARS-FRENCH-GERMAN-POLISH-HIGH-OFFICER-HUSSAR-SWORD-CA-1812/183892398694?I'd be guessing without hitting some books and we have to remember that Napoleon annexed some of the German states creating the Confederation of the Rhine. The cutler/fourbisher is in the books somewhere and my wild assed guess would be from the Alsace area and maybe Strasbourg as the location of origin. The timeline is right. The stylings are of the earlier century and the blue&gilt certainly of the first decade of the 19th century. A fancy officer's sword. I hate the sellers photography (with a passion). Considering a lot of his listings are overpriced, I have to wonder if there is something I am overlooking. I don't have the definitive books for the territory but I'll look at a couple of lists I have Strasbourg was a market center including fine swords back into the 17th century. Cheers GC An edit to mention that the hilt had been silver plated/deposition and the blade does seem to have silvered sections on white etched panels interspersed with the blue&gilt. A neat sword, whatever it is. The scabbard condition (also looking silvered) a factor of a seemingly bargain price. I'll admit to being confused.
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Post by calien on Aug 16, 2019 2:40:27 GMT
Thank you! I think ill go ahead and get it, Im very intrigued by what it could be.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 16, 2019 3:00:49 GMT
Post up here when it arrives!
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Post by MOK on Aug 16, 2019 4:08:20 GMT
It loos like a name E. Lafremie Roneu and on the other side (a leige) or something like that. E. Lafsence Ronge, a Liège.As in Liège. "Lafsence Ronge" (the "f" denotes a long s, so in modern orthography the name would be written "Lassence") was a famous maker of shotguns in mid-19th Century.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 4:13:23 GMT
It loos like a name E. Lafremie Roneu and on the other side (a leige) or something like that. E. Lafsence Ronge, "a Liège". As in Liège. Lafsence Ronge was a famous maker of shotguns in mid-19th Century. There you go I schooled with the mantra of look at marks. Look at how they were made while disregarding everything they say but the words and names are words and names, Cool beans GC
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 4:23:07 GMT
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Post by MOK on Aug 16, 2019 4:44:05 GMT
Or at least father and son, one would assume, Mr. E. here being the senior.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Aug 16, 2019 5:58:23 GMT
Rachelemandel often has nice stuff but can be very over the top price wise. Also his tagging can be way off. Sabres inspired on the French ,,A la Chasseur'' Officers design were made well into the 1850's, in Solingen mainly, so in order to prove this one is really from the Napoleonic period, which is the component that drives up the price here, you'll need to dig into this sword makers family history. Though this one seems to be a very nice sabre indeed, the price is what you pay for a real and solidly dated ANIX - ANXI troopers sabre in good condition. I must say though that the sabre in question is much more exiting. Have a good hard look at the peen to make sure there was no hanky panky done and try to get the price down. I have it from a very good source that this seller is open to negotiation for often serious discounts. He's sitting on a mountain of over 1200 sabres so he told me.
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Post by calien on Aug 16, 2019 11:59:48 GMT
You guys are amazing! That was more in a couple of hours than the week or so I spent looking into it. Thanks again!
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Post by calien on Aug 16, 2019 16:01:12 GMT
Rachelemandel often has nice stuff but can be very over the top price wise. Also his tagging can be way off. Sabres inspired on the French ,,A la Chasseur'' Officers design were made well into the 1850's, in Solingen mainly, so in order to prove this one is really from the Napoleonic period, which is the component that drives up the price here, you'll need to dig into this sword makers family history. Though this one seems to be a very nice sabre indeed, the price is what you pay for a real and solidly dated ANIX - ANXI troopers sabre in good condition. I must say though that the sabre in question is much more exiting. Have a good hard look at the peen to make sure there was no hanky panky done and try to get the price down. I have it from a very good source that this seller is open to negotiation for often serious discounts. He's sitting on a mountain of over 1200 sabres so he told me. Ended up talking him down to 1300, im hoping thats a good deal seems like the sword is a one off because going through hundreds of pictures i havent seen anything that looks quite like it. Also any reason why there is a brass line going down the length of the scabbard?
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Aug 16, 2019 16:05:26 GMT
Rachelemandel often has nice stuff but can be very over the top price wise. Also his tagging can be way off. Sabres inspired on the French ,,A la Chasseur'' Officers design were made well into the 1850's, in Solingen mainly, so in order to prove this one is really from the Napoleonic period, which is the component that drives up the price here, you'll need to dig into this sword makers family history. Though this one seems to be a very nice sabre indeed, the price is what you pay for a real and solidly dated ANIX - ANXI troopers sabre in good condition. I must say though that the sabre in question is much more exiting. Have a good hard look at the peen to make sure there was no hanky panky done and try to get the price down. I have it from a very good source that this seller is open to negotiation for often serious discounts. He's sitting on a mountain of over 1200 sabres so he told me. Ended up talking him down to 1300, im hoping thats a good deal seems like the sword is a one off because going through hundreds of pictures i havent seen anything that looks quite like it. Also any reason why there is a brass line going down the length of the scabbard? im guessing the brass line is where the scabbard was fused together as it is metal, there is a technical term for it but i forget it off the top of my head, brazed maybe idk
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 18:22:42 GMT
I'm sure once in hand that you will see more but yes seams and fitting were soldered or brazed. Sometimes brass brazing is used to close up gaps that arise over time. Some period fixes included molten lead/antimony. Brass showing on this one more likely a repair if the other fittings such as the toe/drag were not brazed as well.
I'd say you did ok.
Cheers GC
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Aug 16, 2019 18:48:18 GMT
I just an hour ago picked up a Hussar Officers sabre I have standing in my ,, office'' waiting for it to be cleaned. I have it for a year now and never realised the scabbard was made from cast iron. Very funny. The heavy, thick walled, cast iron scabbards were ditched in favour of lighter steel plate scabbards. The latter have indeed a seam where the bend and formed steel plate is brazed shut with brass. Do any of you gents have any idea of when cast iron scabbards were outdated?
Speaking of scabbards: I see a kind of tree bark motive on your scabbard? Never seen anything like that before. If so then this sabre certainly is a unique piece. Congratulations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 16, 2019 20:05:41 GMT
To my understandings of the US market, Ames was developing mild steel tubes vs the older iron scabbards and brass by the 50s and was actually having trouble finding mild enough steel by the 1860s for drawing the tubes, having to de-carb and re-anneal some rolls of sheet he was receiving (because of cracking when shaped). Some ferrous scabbards from the 1810-1820 are certainly iron but my Starr 1818 nco and 1818 sabre appear to be thin mild steel sheet. My French 1854 dragon has an iron scabbard. In part, I think it must be when the Bessemer process becomes most instantly adopted that advances were occurring pretty rapidly.
The texture of the scabbard in this story is unclear to me and the seller listing it as possibly damascus make little sense to me. Wrought iron sometimes has a woody grain structure and perhaps what we are seeing is revealed structural de-lamination through corrosion and then buffed. The photos make things very unclear. I don't know if it is compression and effects that make his photos look consistently coarse but it disturbs me terribly, making some spectacular swords appear horribly presented.
Cheers GC
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Aug 16, 2019 22:41:35 GMT
Didn't the French have steel plate scabbards in circa 1810? The LC ANIX and ANXI come to mind? I always forget their AN thing. The scabbard I have is seamless and very heavy and has the texture and dark grey shine of old cast iron. I think the blade of the sabre in discussion here is Damascus, which probably means pattern welded since the woots steel process was already lost in the 18th century I believe. The scabbard looks very funny indeed. Now you mention it I cannot imagine an Officer wanting to strut about with a tree branch. It now looks more like the upper (soft) layer of whatever it is made of was leached out, leaving the harder strata. Never seen anything like this. Images: To me it looks like the pictures were blown up to a size where the pixels show. Likely made with one of the first generation digital cameras. The nasty thing for us, the clients, is that pitting is masked to a degree where one has to strain to see anything of the condition of the blade. Going back and forth I think I see pitting but cannot tell how severe the damage is. These images are rubbish for us buyers. This is one of the reasons I will not do business with this seller. There are more, but that is another story. I want to see and know exactly what I buy. At this price point I expect to get much better information. So, all in all, after long deliberation, with the info at hand, I would have to be pretty enamoured with this sabre to make this deal. If the $1200 or so is just some lunch money, I say go for it. If not, well I would have to think very hard about making this deal based on images that mask a great deal of what may be going on, quality wise. My initial enthousiasm is somewhat subdued now, as in down to 20%.
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Post by calien on Aug 17, 2019 5:11:30 GMT
Dang, well I hope its not the case when it arrives ill post the pictures of it and you guys can tell me what you think. I bought some other ones as well if you all want to see them.
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Post by calien on Aug 18, 2019 13:48:52 GMT
Hey guys, so this is the start of my collection some will be left untouched but I did buy a couple to try my hands at restoring them for the next few weeks. Please let me know if anything looks out of place (Like the model 1845/1855 for some reason something doesnt look right to me).
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