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Post by MOK on Aug 5, 2019 17:11:59 GMT
Depends on the nature and amount of the warping. If it's really dramatic and occurs all along the blade's length, yeah, I think they'd want to redo the heat treat. If it's slight and/or localized, just bending it carefully to shape might work... but I think I'd still want them to re-temper it to ease the tensions that caused the warping in the first place. Fortunately, I don't think quenching the blade anew would be necessary, as that would be a lot riskier (it's where most warping and sabering happens). PS. In any case, doing it with heat would be much safer all around. If it came out of the tempering process and is bent, especially near the forte or in a thick part of the blade you really do run the risk of ruining the blade by trying to correct the set. I've had it happen that the blade simply loses the ability to flex in that region. If it's across the whole thing you might as well just throw it out/return it with a modern production piece if they let it ship like that, it's not like it's a custom maker or an antique. Yeah. It's hard to say anything definite without actually seeing the thing.
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 5, 2019 21:34:51 GMT
Eyal should honor a return/replacement. There is little need to be coy as to the source. It is more important that respondents remain respectful and to the point. The entire myth of them dual hardening to their claimed hardness is a problem with them stating you should "fix" the warp yourself. Few are equipped to deal with this. A flex would have to far exceed the bend in the opposite direction. There are tools but the end result is you then do own their problems. There is no reason to not believe your story but it is really between you and the producer. There has generally been success with resolution when dealing with the company (that is all too apparent from your first post). You should not be expected to fix their problem. Even if the warp occurred in transport (truly unlikely), any claim for damage is the shipper's responsibility and not yours. The sword must be returned in the same state you received it and in original packing. What you have not clarified is if the item was bought direct from the source or through a retailer. Also not mentioned is whether it was shipped within the same country. Canadian law may differ somewhat from US law but if you are going to pursue the issue, a province or state attorney is going to offer a better result than just reviews and the better business sites. Once returned, and in agreement, a replacement or refund minus re-stocking is acceptable. However, shipping costs may all end up being your cost. IMO, Eyal should eat the shipping costs but if going between the US and Canada, you can see how eager it might seem for the producer that you not seek restitution at all. Sad but true. The producer has been known to step up to the plate and offer very good customer service. If it was bought through a vendor, the issues compound. I truly appreciate your desire for an open discussion, I feel openness and honesty are important and I normally would answer any question you might have. However, I am still new here and not sure where the rules might have flexibility, so I will hold off on being specific about the manufacturer's identity in an attempt to respect the new forum rules unless I am told differently by a Moderator. That being said here are some of the answers you wanted, I did order directly from the manufacturer and I was charged shipping costs of $40. So, my assumption would be that is what the cost should be to ship it back. It was shipping from one country to another, but the overall distance was not as great as other things I have ordered within the country. I have kept all of the original packaging for a return although I will need to re-mummify the sword with new plastic wrap. I also feel that a refund or replacement should be offered as I sent them an email with a picture of the issue within a few hours of receiving the sword. I do realize their claim that I used it is within the realm of possibility, but I feel that the nature of the bend (a gentle curve the length of the blade as opposed to a sharp bend at a weak point) and the fact that the sword does not have any chips or scrapes should convince them that it is highly unlikely that I was the cause. I do appreciate the information from everyone here. I try to be fair to all involved and I much appreciate advice from those with more experience. As of now, I have not received a reply from the manufacturer since my last contact on Thursday. Hopefully, I will hear from them tomorrow.
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 5, 2019 21:39:07 GMT
If it came out of the tempering process and is bent, especially near the forte or in a thick part of the blade you really do run the risk of ruining the blade by trying to correct the set. I've had it happen that the blade simply loses the ability to flex in that region. If it's across the whole thing you might as well just throw it out/return it with a modern production piece if they let it ship like that, it's not like it's a custom maker or an antique. Yeah. It's hard to say anything definite without actually seeing the thing. Hi MOK, If you feel a picture is acceptable under the given circumstances, I would be happy to post one. I think I have one that would not make the manufacturer obvious. If I am being unfair, then I do want to know. I still won't like it, but at least I will know the manufacturer did their due diligence on QC.
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Post by MOK on Aug 5, 2019 22:32:20 GMT
Yeah, edelweiss all but said it already... As long as we can all remain civil and polite, I won't put my mod hat on.
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christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on Aug 5, 2019 22:41:40 GMT
I've been following this thread loosely. How are you all gonna feel if it's NOT the manufacturer you are all thinking about?
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Post by MOK on Aug 5, 2019 22:43:06 GMT
Relieved?
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 5, 2019 23:05:42 GMT
Ok, here goes. I tried reducing the size of of the picture to 1 MB so that I could post it here, but you couldn't see most of the blade. So, I took the advice of one of the members here and added it to imgur so that I could share it as a link. Here you go. imgur.com/JNOYBsU
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 5, 2019 23:08:42 GMT
Ok, here goes. I tried reducing the size of of the picture to 1 MB so that I could post it here, but you couldn't see most of the blade. So, I took the advice of one of the members here and added it to imgur so that I could share it as a link. Here you go. imgur.com/JNOYBsUI lined it up next to a straight line in the tiling so that the curve could be shown. Like I said before, if this is not a big deal to most sword owners than I will accept that the manufacturer did their due diligence (but I don't have to like it ).
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Post by MOK on Aug 5, 2019 23:14:43 GMT
Hmm. At least in that photo it looks more like a degree or two, to me. I think I'd be a little bothered, but not enough to demand a replacement unless it had trouble fitting into its scabbard (because in that case the tip can start digging into the wooden core over time and that'd be unreasonably hard to fix).
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 5, 2019 23:21:34 GMT
Hmm. At least in that photo it looks more like a degree or two, to me. I think I'd be a little bothered, but not enough to demand a replacement unless it had trouble fitting into its scabbard (because in that case the tip can start digging into the wooden core over time and that'd be unreasonably hard to fix). It was hard to get into the scabbard and that does bother me as I was concerned about it damaging the scabbard. But, as far as the picture, I measured the offset to be more than a degree or two. It is hard to see all the way to the tip where the bend is greatest. Are you able to see the entire blade? The tip of the blade and the base of the blade are both equally far from the edge of the photo.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 5, 2019 23:26:57 GMT
I think you should send it back. That's definitely enough to cause trouble with its purpose, and just shouldn't be sent out of its shop like that. The fact that the manufacturer doesn't want to replace it is to me a terrible business practice. They sent out a faulty product, and any honest business will stand behind their product.
I wouldn't take that level of flex in an antique without it being disclosed. I wouldn't for sure take it in a modern made sword.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 5, 2019 23:27:08 GMT
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 5, 2019 23:27:31 GMT
Hmm. At least in that photo it looks more like a degree or two, to me. I think I'd be a little bothered, but not enough to demand a replacement unless it had trouble fitting into its scabbard (because in that case the tip can start digging into the wooden core over time and that'd be unreasonably hard to fix). It was hard to get into the scabbard and that does bother me as I was concerned about it damaging the scabbard. But, as far as the picture, I measured the offset to be more than a degree or two. It is hard to see all the way to the tip where the bend is greatest. Are you able to see the entire blade? The tip of the blade and the base of the blade are both equally far from the edge of the photo. I added an oval to mark the tip and a rectangle to mark where the tile line is. Hopefully this helps. And again, if I am overly concerned then I will accept that. imgur.com/7ycg0TM
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Aug 6, 2019 0:08:54 GMT
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 6, 2019 0:24:59 GMT
I think you should send it back. That's definitely enough to cause trouble with its purpose, and just shouldn't be sent out of its shop like that. The fact that the manufacturer doesn't want to replace it is to me a terrible business practice. They sent out a faulty product, and any honest business will stand behind their product. I wouldn't take that level of flex in an antique without it being disclosed. I wouldn't for sure take it in a modern made sword. Yeah, that was how I felt about it.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Aug 6, 2019 0:27:43 GMT
you are clearly not satisfied with it, in which case u should ask for a replacement or refund as it will just keep bugging u until its too late and u are over the refund period
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 6, 2019 0:37:10 GMT
True stormmaster
The other thing that I can't show you (my camera doesn't do a good job on close up shots) is that there is a gap in the guard which is wider than the blade and the blade hugs the same side of the gap towards which the tip bends. So, if you hold the hilt lined up with the tile like I have in the photo, the sword would have bent in that direction even without the curve of the blade. In the picture I shared, the hilt was lined up with the tile but you can see the blade is already angled slightly away from the tile line. This part would not impact how it fits in the sheath, but makes the bend more apparent when you are holding it in front of you.
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Post by MOK on Aug 6, 2019 7:29:58 GMT
True stormmaster The other thing that I can't show you (my camera doesn't do a good job on close up shots) is that there is a gap in the guard which is wider than the blade and the blade hugs the same side of the gap towards which the tip bends. So, if you hold the hilt lined up with the tile like I have in the photo, the sword would have bent in that direction even without the curve of the blade. In the picture I shared, the hilt was lined up with the tile but you can see the blade is already angled slightly away from the tile line. This part would not impact how it fits in the sheath, but makes the bend more apparent when you are holding it in front of you. That probably means the warp extends through the tang, as well.
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Post by whattheheck on Aug 6, 2019 21:18:42 GMT
True stormmaster The other thing that I can't show you (my camera doesn't do a good job on close up shots) is that there is a gap in the guard which is wider than the blade and the blade hugs the same side of the gap towards which the tip bends. So, if you hold the hilt lined up with the tile like I have in the photo, the sword would have bent in that direction even without the curve of the blade. In the picture I shared, the hilt was lined up with the tile but you can see the blade is already angled slightly away from the tile line. This part would not impact how it fits in the sheath, but makes the bend more apparent when you are holding it in front of you. That probably means the warp extends through the tang, as well. I am guessing this means that any quality repair would entail removing the hilt and retempering or bending the tang along with the blade then.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Aug 6, 2019 21:24:01 GMT
That probably means the warp extends through the tang, as well. I am guessing this means that any quality repair would entail removing the hilt and retempering or bending the tang along with the blade then. It would be more work than the sword is worth.
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