christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Jul 17, 2019 3:34:58 GMT
I was at a loss to find a good place to ask this, so...if need be...ADMIN...feel free to move this. Anyway, my question is: Has anyone gotten KoA's sharpening service on a Deepeeka medieval or viking-era sword? They used to not even offer sharpening on Deepeeka swords, but now it seems like you can get it on most all of their 'battle-ready' swords. Lord knows, shaving a little weight off those blades couldn't possibly hurt anything. So...anyone have this done? There's a couple of their swords I might pop on in the future, but I have *zero-use* for a blunt blade.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 17, 2019 3:46:07 GMT
I have not, but KoA has a few videos of their resident reviewer swinging at tatami with sharpened deepeeka swords.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 17, 2019 13:52:48 GMT
It is indeed hard to watch sometimes.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Jul 17, 2019 18:51:41 GMT
Thanks for the video's, 28. Never seen those before...and klnda wish I never had. His cut with the second sword was actually okay...except for the part where he almost cut his own butt off.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 17, 2019 19:35:45 GMT
There’s some contradiction there. He says both pommels are peened, yet KoA states “Nut”. I'd rather not watch the fellow either, thought that was just me.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Jul 17, 2019 19:45:37 GMT
To the best of my knowledge, and from what I've seen personally, it is a nut over threaded tang end. Now, the tang end may be peened over the nut........
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Jul 17, 2019 19:49:24 GMT
FWIW, I have a Deepeeka dagger with the nut construction, and it's solid as a rock. Never had to tighten it, but then, the dagger is pretty much just for *bling-bling* at Ren-Fest.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 17, 2019 20:12:28 GMT
There’s some contradiction there. He says both pommels are peened, yet KoA states “Nut”. I'd rather not watch the fellow either, thought that was just me. I watch them often for a laugh at how badly he cuts, how poorly he describes a blade or how he blames the blade for the cutting performance when his own technique is at fault. Several of these KoA endorsed "reviews" spout incorrect information regarding the blade, assumptions of the style and some of the worst body mechanics I've seen.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 17, 2019 20:21:12 GMT
I'll admit, I've been tempted a few times to try a Deepeeka sword with their sharpening service. The last time I had a sword sharpened by KoA was before they changed their sharpening service to more or less include everything. My guess is they hired someone new that felt confident in sharpening just about any blade.
I currently own a Deepeeka infantry saber and previously owned a Deepeeka 1796. Whilst the Infantry saber is fast as can be, the 1796 I owned was even more of a crowbar than CS' model.
I'd be more than willing to experiment with several Deepeeka swords, if KoA could keep them in stock. Despite most sword groups cautioning against them it seems Deepeeka blades do fairly well in the low end market.
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Post by William Swiger on Jul 17, 2019 21:13:57 GMT
I had one of their Viking swords sharpened by KOA. It came out alright. Bought the sword for the hilt type as it is not sold by anyone else in the production market. Blade and sharpening reminds me of the older Del Tin and MRL swords I had that were sharpened. Pretty large secondary bevel but the blades are thicker than say a Windlass.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on Jul 17, 2019 21:49:24 GMT
A secondary bevel can be cleaned up fairly easily. Any Deepeeka I decide to get would probably just be for some backyard thrashin' an' bashin' anyway...but I must admit, the two swords he 'reviewed' did look pretty decent. I wouldn't be opposed to hanging either one on my wall.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jul 18, 2019 2:10:25 GMT
I’ve used KoA’s sharpening service twice. The first was on a rapier and it was horrible. The grind marks were very course as though they used an excessively large grit and was very uneven. It was sharp, but not as much as it could have been, and over time through normal sharpening has been corrected. The second was on a bastard sword and much better. It also had a secondary bevel but the bevel was even and the grind marks present appeared to be of a finer grit. That blade was very sharp and the edge lasted a long time and cut well. I’ve avoided Deepeeka like the plaque but it does look like recently they are moving in the right direction but still need some catching up. A briquet has been on the back of my mind for a while now and they have one that looks tempting for $85 www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH3207&name=French+Napoleonic+Infantry+Briquet It falls short statistically but I say tempting because of the low price and will use as a project. I’ll need to buy an angle grinder though. It would be interesting to see how much I could change the handling by adding distal taper and adding a decent edge. Does anyone know if they use epoxy. It looks like there is some oozing out around the pommel nut.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Jul 18, 2019 3:19:10 GMT
I think what you are seeing around the pommel is a bit of brass plating that has come off.
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Post by Cosmoline on Jul 18, 2019 22:04:49 GMT
I was expecting a joke about the service involving throwing the sword away for you, but it sounds like they aren't quite as bad as they used to be.
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Post by Matt KOA on Jul 20, 2019 3:12:05 GMT
At KOA we used to not offer sharpening on Deepeeka because Ryan (our owner) used to do it and he didn't really have time to sharpen all those Deepeeka swords and still do everything else he did to run the business. Because they were thicker blades with thicker blunted edges they required more work to get a decent edge. He occasionally would sharpen a Deepeeka here and there by special request.
Once we were able to hire a full time sharpener we were able to offer sharpening for Deepeeka as he has the time to do it. That being said, from what I have been told is that while we can put a serviceable edge on most Deepeeka swords the bevel tends to be steep due to thickness of the blade.
There is a bit of luck of the draw as well. I have noticed that Deepeeka blade edges can vary notably in thickness even between swords of the same model. As an observation it seems to me that the newer models tend to have thinner edges, but that is just a cursory observation. I have not actually taken data and made a study on this to see if it is objectively true.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 20, 2019 4:20:34 GMT
At KOA we used to not offer sharpening on Deepeeka because Ryan (our owner) used to do it and he didn't really have time to sharpen all those Deepeeka swords and still do everything else he did to run the business. Because they were thicker blades with thicker blunted edges they required more work to get a decent edge. He occasionally would sharpen a Deepeeka here and there by special request. Once we were able to hire a full time sharpener we were able to offer sharpening for Deepeeka as he has the time to do it. That being said, from what I have been told is that while we can put a serviceable edge on most Deepeeka swords the bevel tends to be steep due to thickness of the blade. There is a bit of luck of the draw as well. I have noticed that Deepeeka blade edges can vary notably in thickness even between swords of the same model. As an observation it seems to me that the newer models tend to have thinner edges, but that is just a cursory observation. I have not actually taken data and made a study on this to see if it is objectively true. Matt, Thank you for taking the time reply on our humble forum! I would hate to bombard you with questions regarding the swords offered by Deepeeka at Kult of Athena so I'll just limit it to a few questions. 1. How successful is the brand, as sold through KOA? Do they sell well? I notice a significant number fluctuate as to whether they are on back order or in stock. took note to pay attention a few years back to sort of gauge how many collectors/reenactors may be purchasing lower end swords such as Deepeeka that may or may not be members of this forum or other like sword enthusiast groups, as for many years it has been the order of the day to ward potential buyers away from the brand. I will concede that I've noticed over the past few years Deepeeka seem to be working on their designs, although still keeping them as low price as possible.
2. If you personally were to order a sharpened Deepeeka, which would it be?
3. Is Deepeeka a brand that may be more "endorsed" by KOA than others, aside from your in-house brands? I noticed this when looking on the manufacturer page for Deepeeka that KOA has a longer write-up for the brand than some others and also states that "This is only a small sampling of the Deepeeka items we offer, more are added to the website all the time. If you are looking for a particular item, or find a Deepeeka item you'd like listed somewhere else, let us know, if it's available we can get it for you. And, we'll beat the price you found it at." This leads me to believe that KOA as a US based retailer may have some pull with this manufacturer, or be THE importer of Deepeeka arms and armor for the United States.Thank you for your time if you choose to respond. It's not as often we get manufacturers/retailers on here that much anymore, especially since I joined back in 2015, so I like to take the time when I can to get an inside look to the business of the sword industry.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Jul 20, 2019 17:46:26 GMT
Bless you, 28. You asked some other great questions that I also hope Matt responds to. I also see Deepeeka as an up-and-comer in the sword community. The last few products I've gotten from them have been really great as quality goes.
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Post by Matt KOA on Jul 22, 2019 18:29:10 GMT
To 28shadow and the forum, I apologize for the delay in a reply and for the length of it, but you did ask some good questions that deserved a more thorough answer. I’ll endeavor to answer your questions here. Beneath the answers I will have a section where I give some details on my position in the company, as well as my general experience. Those who are interested can read that section and know both the breadth and limitations of my experience which will give more context to the answers. I make some generalizations but please be aware that some are needed to have a discussion and make some conclusions and that naturally there are always examples of exceptions that can be found. Additionally my comments are my own and are not to be taken as an official statement of Kult of Athena. Questions from 28shadow are in bold
“Q1: How successful is the brand, as sold through KOA? Do they sell well? I notice a significant number fluctuate as to whether they are on back order or in stock. took note to pay attention a few years back to sort of gauge how many collectors/reenactors may be purchasing lower end swords such as Deepeeka that may or may not be members of this forum or other like sword enthusiast groups, as for many years it has been the order of the day to ward potential buyers away from the brand. I will concede that I've noticed over the past few years Deepeeka seem to be working on their designs, although still keeping them as low price as possible.”
A1: I would say the brand is quite successful. We receive many items in quantity and many will often go out of stock and become back-ordered. Like many base tier brands the brand has and can still be maligned. Anecdotally I would say that sales seem strong overall. What would be a rather fascinating answer (and one I do not have an answer to) is how many who purchase the swords, daggers etc would call themselves “sword collectors” or something else. Many customers buying Deepeeka swords are looking for a real sword that is relatively low in cost because it is needed to finish out a costume, a reenactment kit or is needed for stage / theatre. For many of these people they are already purchasing the components to a whole costume or kit as well and the cost of the sword needs to be balanced against that. While many of these people may collect swords there is a pretty good chance that many of them do not partake in the online sword collecting community and may instead be active on forums more closely centered to their various interests. Also, I would expect that many newer or younger sword collectors purchase a Deepeeka sword as their first real sword and their entry point into the hobby and these people may not yet be involved in the online discussion as well. This last group is probably not insignificant in number either. We also have some customers who like to purchase Deepeeka because they prefer to have a large and varied amount of weapons in their collection, as opposed to only a few higher end pieces. For people with that preference Deepeeka can align with the budget for their collection.
Q2: 2. “If you personally were to order a sharpened Deepeeka, which would it be?”
A few come to mind: 1. Alexandria Arsenal Milanese Finger Guard Sword - PRS401 www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=PRS401&name=Alexandria+Arsenal+Milanese+Finger+Guard+Sword This one is from Deepeeka’s Primus Line and they put a bit more effort into research, design and execution on these. I remember the few that I have handled having slightly thinner and more consistent edges that would lend themselves better to being sharpened than other examples. 2. Deepeeka Gladii - Newer model Gladius swords tend to have blends that thin out better toward the edges. Of these I would give particular note to Mainz and wider Fulham styles. 3. Our sharpener says that he can get a good sharpening with a well-angled bevel on these Falcata. He also says the Gladii I previously mentioned tend to turn out better after sharpening than most others. kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH4111BRkultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH4111BNThere are also two model possibilities that would be worth keeping an eye on for the future. Right now there are only stage combat variants out, but Deepeeka often does standard versions of swords alongside stage combats. They might not ever make them, so no promises, but there is a solid shot that they are available someday: www.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH6990F&name=Gaelic%2DNorse+Arming+Swordwww.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH6983F&name=Teutonic+Arming+Swordwww.kultofathena.com/product.asp?item=AH6999F&name=Teutonic+German+LongswordStandard blade versions of these swords would lend themselves well to being sharpened because they have a slight hollow grind in their blade profile. The Gaelic-Norse in particular is a good example of Deepeeka increasing their quality with newer models. The few I have handled have been well-tempered and the rest of the hilt is well executed in its dimensions. Notice the weight and Point of Balance of the stage combat model are surprisingly good (in my opinion and according to my preferences) for a thicker bladed stage and sport combat sword. I would expect a standard model to only improve in this somewhat. Q3: “Is Deepeeka a brand that may be more "endorsed" by KOA than others, aside from your in-house brands? I noticed this when looking on the manufacturer page for Deepeeka that KOA has a longer write-up for the brand than some others and also states that "This is only a small sampling of the Deepeeka items we offer, more are added to the website all the time. If you are looking for a particular item, or find a Deepeeka item you'd like listed somewhere else, let us know, if it's available we can get it for you. And, we'll beat the price you found it at." This leads me to believe that KOA as a US based retailer may have some pull with this manufacturer, or be THE importer of Deepeeka arms and armor for the United States.”
A3: We are the official USA importer and distributor for the Deepeeka brand. We don’t dictate their product offerings and design however. As a major purchaser they do ask us for feedback and suggestions from time to time. What they do with any suggestions or feedback is entirely their prerogative and I would expect that they collect feedback from all their other major importers worldwide as well. What we have done is that we requested for as many swords, daggers and other weapons that we purchase from them to be tempered as standard. In the past this was not standardized for some of their models and some were either not tempered or the decision to temper or not was inconsistent. Now as many items as possible are tempered as standard. There are some items where tempering is not available however and I believe most of these are things such as polearms, hammers, maces, etc. Please be aware that we still have some of their older swords and daggers in stock which pre-date our request for universal tempering - these will not be listed as “battle ready” If by endorsed are you asking if we push or prop up the brand over others? I would say not because the brand can stand on its own and the products are a good fit for the various needs and niches of some customers. Different products fit the needs of different people and at the end of the day we want people to be happy with their purchase, whether it be Deepeeka, Hanwei, Cold Steel or Albion. I also wouldn’t look too deeply into the manufacturer description being related to endorsement of a product line. Most of those are written by our owner Ryan and I think how extensive the description is largely depended on how much time he had for it that day or what creative processes he was using at the time. I think that Deepeeka as a brand is increasing in quality and design with newer models. Their craftsmen work at a high level with leather, wood, bone and horn and use high quality steel. The steel is often well tempered, but sometimes softer tempering can occur. They often come with wood scabbards which is quite nice for the price point. In general Deepeeka swords are bringing a sturdily built sword at a budget price. Mileage varies on the model due to the current co-existence of newer models with older, less impressive designs, but many of their offerings are a good value when they align with customer needs. One thing I would like to point out is that I whether or not I would ultimately recommend a Deepeeka for a customer depends on how they feel about symmetry vs asymmetry in a sword and its various components. Deepeeka swords are handcrafted and at their price point some *minor asymmetry in blade and hilt components and hammer blow marks on the blade that can be felt or seen are standard. For people who are unhappy with these things and want very high levels of symmetry and a machine-precision appearance in their sword they should instead consider buying from brands which cast, stamp or mill many of their components or consider purchasing higher cost brands. For other customers who are not bothered by minor asymmetry or even prefer that handcrafted look Deepeeka can work well for them. Some customers also prefer forged components because they will generally be stronger than cast components due to the compression and alteration of steel grains that occurs during manufacture. (*What constitutes minor is a subjective judgement. In this I am referring to asymmetry that can be visibly noticed, but is not great enough to warrant a product being downgraded to munitions grade or a blowout.) Our packing team looks over Deepeeka products before shipping and we separate out ones with bent or twisted blades and mark them as Munitions Grade items which sell at lower price. Standard quality items will exhibit some level of asymmetry and this is normal not only for Deepeeka but for other economy level brands as well. ------------------------------- About me: I am Matt and I have worked at Kult of Athena for about six years. I produce the product content for the website which includes photographing items, taking data and measurements and writing the descriptions. A perk of the job is that I get to spend a good bit of hands-on time with many items from many manufacturers I have been a collector since my teen years in the late 90s. My favorite piece in my collection is a Teutonic Grandmaster’s sword from ArmArt which I received back when they had a presence on Sword Forum International.
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Post by 28shadow on Jul 22, 2019 21:08:37 GMT
You have my thanks Matt!
I myself am interested in trying a few of their newer saber and cutlass models that look to be within an acceptable weight range.
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thomasthesecond
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"I thought I was an architect, but I was just moving dirt."
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Post by thomasthesecond on Jul 26, 2019 13:00:11 GMT
Not to derail the thread, but in defense of Tom, I used to give him a very hard time about the way he cuts- though the way he does it is by the book Philipino martial arts, which he has studied extensively. He seemed very open to studying medieval longsword or I.33 to better the content on the KoA channel recently however, so we shall see.
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