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Post by Darth Paunch on Jun 1, 2019 20:17:17 GMT
OK. We speak again in, lets say, 5 years or so. If enough cutting happened until then without somebody having lost a limb, eyesight or a head due to the helicopter of death i will offer my deepest apologies. Why do i just have such a bad feeling...
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jun 1, 2019 21:13:30 GMT
I guess someone might have said it was stupid for me to even participate in DSA threads few years ago as I don't even have real interest in them. But if you read the old threads you can see what I thought about things.
There have been lots of controversies about DSA over the years. To be honest it is not a thing or 2 that caused all the negative stuff. I mean honestly how many vendors will have to show pictures of the tangs to get some lost credibility back? I can't recall needing to see even any Indian or Chinese made tangs before, let alone something produced by Eastern European smiths for example. I remember Robert Marks tried to do some PR on many forums few years ago and I think that was good move but unfortunately we lost that communication channel.
I must say from what I've seen recently Darksword seem to have upped their game lately, be it that they started doing better swords in Canada or giving better instructions to their suppliers. I don't care too much about it other than their swords seem to be better quality now. The unfortunate thing is that I think they are quite expensive (very expensive for us in Europe). Personally way the international shipping costs have risen in recent years I will probably not buy production swords from North America again if things stay as they are at the moment.
People have widely different opinions of some manufacturers and DSA happens to be one of the most spread out opinions, some love them some hate them. I know we have gotten lots of flak because in here we sometimes critisize the manufacturers sometimes bit harshly but I think many of us are doing it for the benefit of others? Of course there are some that just stir the pot for fun and enjoy strong reactions. I remember how in the "old days" there was lots of discussion about stuff and both good and bad views were brought up in good manner. Trying to help people to get the good swords for their money spent.
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Post by mpsmith47304 on Jun 1, 2019 23:24:35 GMT
That’s a classic example of what I don’t like about DSA. Nearly 5 pounds for a 36-inch blade? Nuts. The execution of the hilt looks clunky. The guard could be more refined and not as chunky, and the grip looks rather too round. The blade needs to lose some mass as well. I don’t hate the concept, though. Umm, what about Albion’s Conan swords ? Those are replicas of a fantasy movie sword, and not their own original design. Not even close to comparable. As an actual, functional sword, the Conan designs are not very good, and I wouldn’t recommend them to someone looking for a functional sword. As a movie replica or piece of art? Sure. |
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jun 2, 2019 0:06:30 GMT
I notice that no one has brought up the ethical issues of DSA and it's owner Eyal Azerad. They are ultimately why I wouldn't patronize the company. Eyal seems to be a pathological liar, at least where his business is concerned. The company has a history of bad customer service, and making promises to resolve issues with their products which they didn't keep. There is evidence that DSA doesn't produce their blades in Canada, as they claim, and when confronted with that evidence Eyal has chosen to repeatedly double down on the deception. He has paid for the production of multiple videos supposedly showing the DSA forge, but experienced sword smiths have pointed out that the tiny forging facility shown in these videos couldn't supply the number of swords DSA sells. Even more damning is the economic reality that the swords DSA sells can't be sold at the mid-tier price point they specialize in using using Canadian materials and labor. The numbers just don't add up. There is also a history of DSA stealing fantasy sword designs from other sword makers. It seems pretty clear that Eyal is ethically bankrupt, and even if he was offering Albion quality swords (he isn't), I couldn't in good conscience give him my money.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jun 2, 2019 0:26:07 GMT
I notice that no one has brought up the ethical issues of DSA and it's owner Eyal Azerad. They are ultimately why I wouldn't patronize the company. Eyal seems to be a pathological liar, at least where his business is concerned. The company has a history of bad customer service, and making promises to resolve issues with their products which they didn't keep. There is evidence that DSA doesn't produce their blades in Canada, as they claim, and when confronted with that evidence Eyal has chosen to repeatedly double down on the deception. He has paid for the production of multiple videos supposedly showing the DSA forge, but experienced sword smiths have pointed out that the tiny forging facility shown in these videos couldn't supply the number of swords DSA sells. Even more damning is the economic reality that the swords DSA sells can't be sold at the mid-tier price point they specialize in using using Canadian materials and labor. The numbers just don't add up. There is also a history of DSA stealing fantasy sword designs from other sword makers. It seems pretty clear that Eyal is ethically bankrupt, and even if he was offering Albion quality swords (he isn't), I couldn't in good conscience give him my money. TBF Cold Steel is also insanely unethical, and it isnt brought up nearly as much as DSA. They have videos killing live animals with their swords and Lynn Thompson (their founder and CEO) is an exotic game hunter...  |
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 2, 2019 1:33:33 GMT
I notice that no one has brought up the ethical issues of DSA and it's owner Eyal Azerad. They are ultimately why I wouldn't patronize the company. Eyal seems to be a pathological liar, at least where his business is concerned. The company has a history of bad customer service, and making promises to resolve issues with their products which they didn't keep. There is evidence that DSA doesn't produce their blades in Canada, as they claim, and when confronted with that evidence Eyal has chosen to repeatedly double down on the deception. He has paid for the production of multiple videos supposedly showing the DSA forge, but experienced sword smiths have pointed out that the tiny forging facility shown in these videos couldn't supply the number of swords DSA sells. Even more damning is the economic reality that the swords DSA sells can't be sold at the mid-tier price point they specialize in using using Canadian materials and labor. The numbers just don't add up. There is also a history of DSA stealing fantasy sword designs from other sword makers. It seems pretty clear that Eyal is ethically bankrupt, and even if he was offering Albion quality swords (he isn't), I couldn't in good conscience give him my money. TBF Cold Steel is also insanely unethical, and it isnt brought up nearly as much as DSA. They have videos killing live animals with their swords and Lynn Thompson (their founder and CEO) is an exotic game hunter... Do they really?! |
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 2, 2019 1:38:57 GMT
Videos of them killing live animals with their swords? Source? As far as the hunting, as far as I know it's legal in the respective country. Thats a crazy way to hunt |
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jun 2, 2019 1:43:03 GMT
Videos of them killing live animals with their swords? Source? As far as the hunting, as far as I know it's legal in the respective country. Time stamped for your convenience, and my post has nothing to do with the legality of Cold Steels actions, but rather the morality and ethics of those actions. |
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 2, 2019 1:44:54 GMT
If I were to ever make a sword brand, I would make functional fantasy swords.
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 2, 2019 1:45:35 GMT
Videos of them killing live animals with their swords? Source? As far as the hunting, as far as I know it's legal in the respective country. Time stamped for your convenience, and my post has nothing to do with the legality of Cold Steels actions, but rather the morality and ethics of those actions. |
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 2, 2019 1:52:44 GMT
We need functional fantasy swords that can actually be used.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,659
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jun 2, 2019 2:13:30 GMT
I notice that no one has brought up the ethical issues of DSA and it's owner Eyal Azerad. They are ultimately why I wouldn't patronize the company. Eyal seems to be a pathological liar, at least where his business is concerned. The company has a history of bad customer service, and making promises to resolve issues with their products which they didn't keep. There is evidence that DSA doesn't produce their blades in Canada, as they claim, and when confronted with that evidence Eyal has chosen to repeatedly double down on the deception. He has paid for the production of multiple videos supposedly showing the DSA forge, but experienced sword smiths have pointed out that the tiny forging facility shown in these videos couldn't supply the number of swords DSA sells. Even more damning is the economic reality that the swords DSA sells can't be sold at the mid-tier price point they specialize in using using Canadian materials and labor. The numbers just don't add up. There is also a history of DSA stealing fantasy sword designs from other sword makers. It seems pretty clear that Eyal is ethically bankrupt, and even if he was offering Albion quality swords (he isn't), I couldn't in good conscience give him my money. TBF Cold Steel is also insanely unethical, and it isnt brought up nearly as much as DSA. They have videos killing live animals with their swords and Lynn Thompson (their founder and CEO) is an exotic game hunter... I don't buy from Cold Steel either. They are also morally bankrupt. Beyond the killing of endangered species, and killing animals for promotional reasons, they are known for unfair competitive practices, litigious bullying, and trademarking "san mai" (a laminating technique which has been around for hundreds of years). |
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jun 2, 2019 2:34:29 GMT
Time stamped for your convenience, and my post has nothing to do with the legality of Cold Steels actions, but rather the morality and ethics of those actions. I can't argue with your personal morality and code of ethics but if they aren't doing anything illegal and spearing fish( with spear or sword or whatever) is a legal method of taking the animal then I'm not sure there is much of an argument. Spears for example are allowed in several states in the USA as a legal method of taking different animals. They also allow it as a legal method of taking a wild boar in some places for example. Knives,swords,etc. I wonder if you would still think it morally or ethically wrong when our primitive hunter ancestors did it in the same way. Perhaps even worse ways. I dont know how a picture of Lynn Thompson traveling internationally to shoot an endangered large cat corresponds to our ancestors hunting a deer for meat... Im not even here to make a point about hunting, I dont have a particular beef with hunting, but killing an endangered animal for the purpose of slapping your company logo on the photo seems like an objectively unethical thing to do. And the fish? Same thing, they impaled a fish with a katana for an advertisement, not to feed the village or anything lol |
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reptaronice1
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 2, 2019 2:35:57 GMT
Im not going to get involved in this honestly. I want to keep my morals out of the forum.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jun 2, 2019 2:37:09 GMT
TBF Cold Steel is also insanely unethical, and it isnt brought up nearly as much as DSA. They have videos killing live animals with their swords and Lynn Thompson (their founder and CEO) is an exotic game hunter... I don't buy from Cold Steel either. They are also morally bankrupt. Beyond the killing of endangered species, and killing animals for promotional reasons, they are known for unfair competitive practices, litigious bullying, and trademarking "san mai" (a laminating technique which has been around for hundreds of years). Ye, wasn't trying to accuse you of anything to be clear, I just found it odd that so much more criticism of ethics is directed toward DSA than CS |
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reptaronice1
Member
Tell Me... Friend... When Did Saruman The Wise Abandon Reason For Madness?!
Posts: 2,366
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Post by reptaronice1 on Jun 2, 2019 2:40:03 GMT
I don't buy from Cold Steel either. They are also morally bankrupt. Beyond the killing of endangered species, and killing animals for promotional reasons, they are known for unfair competitive practices, litigious bullying, and trademarking "san mai" (a laminating technique which has been around for hundreds of years). Ye, wasn't trying to accuse you of anything to be clear, I just found it odd that so much more criticism of ethics is directed toward DSA than CS If I am going to get a fantasy sword, im going to get it from a trusted forge that I can talk with the owner. I am not a huge fan of any forges that have lots of skepticism. |
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jun 2, 2019 3:03:09 GMT
I dont know how a picture of Lynn Thompson traveling internationally to shoot an endangered large cat corresponds to our ancestors hunting a deer for meat... Im not even here to make a point about hunting, I dont have a particular beef with hunting, but killing an endangered animal for the purpose of slapping your company logo on the photo seems like an objectively unethical thing to do. And the fish? Same thing, they impaled a fish with a katana for an advertisement, not to feed the village or anything lol I guess I just don't really see the issue here, if something isn't illegal and an animal is, many times even, bred specifically with the hunting market in mind( Literally a lot of these animals are specifically kept and bred in reserves for the purpose of hunting). It's arguable that these animals would have gotten extinct even earlier if it wasn't for this market. He probably has paid literally hundreds of thousands of dollars into the African hunting economy and provided food to nearby villagers with the game meat. Why is it any different for Lynn Thompson to spear a fish with a sword to sell the versatility and durability of his wares is any different from something like a Frog gig that is sold on Amazon for hunting bullfrogs. www.amazon.com/Danielson-Quick-Release-Spear-Telescoping-Handle/dp/B006L11EY8/ref=sr_1_5?crid=18F1QM6CXPFYH&keywords=frog+gig&qid=1559444173&s=gateway&sprefix=frog+gig%2Caps%2C214&sr=8-5Because bullfrogs are common and can be consumed for their meat (froglegs are pretty tasty) and leopards are rare endangered species that I've never heard of anyone cooking? My ethical claim is "dont kill endangered animals to promote your business", I'm more than a little taken aback that is causing any degree of controversy, it just seems pretty ubiquitous |
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jun 2, 2019 5:57:41 GMT
Because bullfrogs are common and can be consumed for their meat (froglegs are pretty tasty) and leopards are rare endangered species that I've never heard of anyone cooking? My ethical claim is "dont kill endangered animals to promote your business", I'm more than a little taken aback that is causing any degree of controversy, it just seems pretty ubiquitous Meh, no more controversy from me, this is leading no where ...I guess I shouldn't expect anything else. I shouldn't waste anymore time on someone who is refusing to hear me and is avoiding my points. Trust me that villagers in Africa will not likely turn down Leopard meat but it's all good bro nothing else for us here. uhhhh....okay? |
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Post by Darth Paunch on Jun 2, 2019 6:00:00 GMT
I notice that no one has brought up the ethical issues of DSA and it's owner Eyal Azerad. They are ultimately why I wouldn't patronize the company. Eyal seems to be a pathological liar, at least where his business is concerned. The company has a history of bad customer service, and making promises to resolve issues with their products which they didn't keep. There is evidence that DSA doesn't produce their blades in Canada, as they claim, and when confronted with that evidence Eyal has chosen to repeatedly double down on the deception. He has paid for the production of multiple videos supposedly showing the DSA forge, but experienced sword smiths have pointed out that the tiny forging facility shown in these videos couldn't supply the number of swords DSA sells. Even more damning is the economic reality that the swords DSA sells can't be sold at the mid-tier price point they specialize in using using Canadian materials and labor. The numbers just don't add up. There is also a history of DSA stealing fantasy sword designs from other sword makers. It seems pretty clear that Eyal is ethically bankrupt, and even if he was offering Albion quality swords (he isn't), I couldn't in good conscience give him my money. I would like to deeply thank you for pointing this out. Sadly i am obviously not in the necessary state of mind to put out such a cool minded, straight to the point and logical statement. Pity. It just gets me in the "mood" to talk DSA again and again. Surely i could stay out of this; point given. I am just very sad seeing Paul defending them. As i wrote: hurts. Saddens. You are absolutely right on that Thompson guy from Cold Steel of course; what a *beep*hole of a human being. I usually defend their SWORDS - surely not their boss guy. Someone who kills animals just for fun and not for food is primordial soup; nothing more. |
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jun 2, 2019 16:30:41 GMT
That’s a classic example of what I don’t like about DSA. Nearly 5 pounds for a 36-inch blade? Nuts. The execution of the hilt looks clunky. The guard could be more refined and not as chunky, and the grip looks rather too round. The blade needs to lose some mass as well. I don’t hate the concept, though. Umm, what about Albion’s Conan swords ? Those are totally different designs though... and actually sort of infamous for being clunky just due to the massive size of the hilt and blade. |
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