thomasthesecond
Member
"I thought I was an architect, but I was just moving dirt."
Posts: 153
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Post by thomasthesecond on Jul 21, 2019 14:40:48 GMT
Absolutely. From this moment on, I refuse to read through, much less comment in, another thread involving DSA. The damned horse is DEAD...stop the beating. Jeez....... That's a shame. DSA makes a good sword.
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Post by Darth Paunch on Jul 21, 2019 15:59:18 GMT
Darksword Armory (DSA) and it's owner Eyal Azerad have a history of unethical behavior. Even if they have resolved the tang issues of the past, I can not in good conscience support a company who has repeatedly lied to and abused its customers, stolen sword designs from other sword makers, and continues to lie about where their blades are made, and who is making them. It's as simple as that. I'm not going to tell anyone else to buy, or not buy DSA merchandise, but I would want to know if I was supporting an unethical company before I endorsed them with my wallet. Attachments:
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Post by Darth Paunch on Jul 21, 2019 16:01:06 GMT
Absolutely. From this moment on, I refuse to read through, much less comment in, another thread involving DSA. The damned horse is DEAD...stop the beating. Jeez....... That's a shame. DSA makes a good sword. Oh... OK, when you say so. How many do you have? How many did you cut with? How many broke in your hands?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jul 21, 2019 18:08:10 GMT
Darksword Armory (DSA) and it's owner Eyal Azerad have a history of unethical behavior. Even if they have resolved the tang issues of the past, I can not in good conscience support a company who has repeatedly lied to and abused its customers, stolen sword designs from other sword makers, and continues to lie about where their blades are made, and who is making them. It's as simple as that. I'm not going to tell anyone else to buy, or not buy DSA merchandise, but I would want to know if I was supporting an unethical company before I endorsed them with my wallet. I find this amusing. How do you feel about the Ronin Euro models? Not to break your very shaky mindset on the subject, but every design they use is "stolen" from smaller European forges. Proof? Otherwise it feels like you're calling wolf like your other thread about them (where you say you jumped to conclusions and that they didn't actually copy the Elgur piece).
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Post by zabazagobo on Jul 21, 2019 19:55:13 GMT
I find this amusing. How do you feel about the Ronin Euro models? Not to break your very shaky mindset on the subject, but every design they use is "stolen" from smaller European forges. Why turn a good review into a manufacturer fan war at all? See my jab at DSA's belt suspension systems in the Witcher thread. Clarification provided.
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thomasthesecond
Member
"I thought I was an architect, but I was just moving dirt."
Posts: 153
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Post by thomasthesecond on Jul 21, 2019 23:15:43 GMT
I find this amusing. How do you feel about the Ronin Euro models? Not to break your very shaky mindset on the subject, but every design they use is "stolen" from smaller European forges. Proof? Otherwise it feels like you're calling wolf like your other thread about them (where you say you jumped to conclusions and that they didn't actually copy the Elgur piece). That other thread proves the point I'm trying to make. The newbism I made was repeated here. Edit: notice the bunny ears on "stolen".
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jul 22, 2019 1:45:17 GMT
Proof? Otherwise it feels like you're calling wolf like your other thread about them (where you say you jumped to conclusions and that they didn't actually copy the Elgur piece). That other thread proves the point I'm trying to make. The newbism I made was repeated here. Edit: notice the bunny ears on "stolen". Forgive me if I'm not understanding, but what is your point? Quotation marks can mean a lot of things.
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thomasthesecond
Member
"I thought I was an architect, but I was just moving dirt."
Posts: 153
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Post by thomasthesecond on Jul 22, 2019 4:29:53 GMT
That other thread proves the point I'm trying to make. The newbism I made was repeated here. Edit: notice the bunny ears on "stolen". Forgive me if I'm not understanding, but what is your point? Quotation marks can mean a lot of things. As Matt Jenson said to me about a year ago, it gives more people access to this design at a lower price point, for people that can't afford a custom sword. Most of the designs in the world currently unless pure fantasy, are "stolen" designs. It could even be argued that Albion steals designs, mashes them up and sells them, as they're not "original" to the brand - in terms of cross guards, pommels, etc. If it's even loosely based on a historic sword, it's already no longer an original design, and can't be "stolen". Made in a certain style I would think can be original however. But at the same time, after billions of humans have walked this earth, I'm not sure there's much left in terms of originality in swords, again, albeit fantasy.
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thomasthesecond
Member
"I thought I was an architect, but I was just moving dirt."
Posts: 153
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Post by thomasthesecond on Jul 22, 2019 4:32:25 GMT
Why turn a good review into a manufacturer fan war at all? See my jab at DSA's belt suspension systems in the Witcher thread. Clarification provided. Tod of Tods Stuff used that belt suspension system as well, still does currently. While that style of belt is out of place on a 14th century sword, the system itself is valid and your point is moot. Be grateful you get a belt, or scabbard at all. *cough cough*del tin*cough*
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jul 22, 2019 5:03:02 GMT
Forgive me if I'm not understanding, but what is your point? Quotation marks can mean a lot of things. As Matt Jenson said to me about a year ago, it gives more people access to this design at a lower price point, for people that can't afford a custom sword. Most of the designs in the world currently unless pure fantasy, are "stolen" designs. It could even be argued that Albion steals designs, mashes them up and sells them, as they're not "original" to the brand - in terms of cross guards, pommels, etc. If it's even loosely based on a historic sword, it's already no longer an original design, and can't be "stolen". Made in a certain style I would think can be original however. But at the same time, after billions of humans have walked this earth, I'm not sure there's much left in terms of originality in swords, again, albeit fantasy. I guess I'm just a little confused about why you're calling it stolen, Or stolen from lower end brands. I understand your point about originality when it comes to historically based designs, I mean there are a lot of type X's with the same cross guard, but replicating something from history and stealing a more unique design is imo a little different.
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thomasthesecond
Member
"I thought I was an architect, but I was just moving dirt."
Posts: 153
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Post by thomasthesecond on Jul 22, 2019 5:18:54 GMT
As Matt Jenson said to me about a year ago, it gives more people access to this design at a lower price point, for people that can't afford a custom sword. Most of the designs in the world currently unless pure fantasy, are "stolen" designs. It could even be argued that Albion steals designs, mashes them up and sells them, as they're not "original" to the brand - in terms of cross guards, pommels, etc. If it's even loosely based on a historic sword, it's already no longer an original design, and can't be "stolen". Made in a certain style I would think can be original however. But at the same time, after billions of humans have walked this earth, I'm not sure there's much left in terms of originality in swords, again, albeit fantasy. I guess I'm just a little confused about why you're calling it stolen, Or stolen from lower end brands. I understand your point about originality when it comes to historically based designs, I mean there are a lot of type X's with the same cross guard, but replicating something from history and stealing a more unique design is imo a little different. I was stating that it was as stolen as they claimed DS designs are. To an extent I agree with you, that's what founded the initial questions I had in regards to the extreme similarity of the Ronin and Elgur. However, others have shed some light, or rather food for thought, that have not necessarily changed my opinion on the subject, but have helped me understand their point of view, enough to ease my conscience anyways. While it's obvious Ronin is loved among SBG forumites, DSA stands at the other end of the spectrum, which I find not only unfair, but unjust. That was why the comparison was made.
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Post by zabazagobo on Jul 22, 2019 6:14:14 GMT
See my jab at DSA's belt suspension systems in the Witcher thread. Clarification provided. Tod of Tods Stuff used that belt suspension system as well, still does currently. While that style of belt is out of place on a 14th century sword, the system itself is valid and your point is moot. Be grateful you get a belt, or scabbard at all. *cough cough*del tin*cough* Uh huh. Have you ever tried Skyjiro swords? They have phenomenal scabbards and suspension systems. I think they'd be your cup of tea.
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thomasthesecond
Member
"I thought I was an architect, but I was just moving dirt."
Posts: 153
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Post by thomasthesecond on Jul 22, 2019 6:58:17 GMT
Tod of Tods Stuff used that belt suspension system as well, still does currently. While that style of belt is out of place on a 14th century sword, the system itself is valid and your point is moot. Be grateful you get a belt, or scabbard at all. *cough cough*del tin*cough* Uh huh. Have you ever tried Skyjiro swords? They have phenomenal scabbards and suspension systems. I think they'd be your cup of tea. We get it, you really don't like DSA scabbards for a valid reason. Going as far as to compare them to what, silk cordage? Just don't buy it with the suspension option and put a belt on it yourself.
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Post by Siward on Jul 22, 2019 7:29:14 GMT
As Matt Jenson said to me about a year ago, it gives more people access to this design at a lower price point, for people that can't afford a custom sword. Most of the designs in the world currently unless pure fantasy, are "stolen" designs. It could even be argued that Albion steals designs, mashes them up and sells them, as they're not "original" to the brand - in terms of cross guards, pommels, etc. If it's even loosely based on a historic sword, it's already no longer an original design, and can't be "stolen". Made in a certain style I would think can be original however. But at the same time, after billions of humans have walked this earth, I'm not sure there's much left in terms of originality in swords, again, albeit fantasy. I guess I'm just a little confused about why you're calling it stolen, Or stolen from lower end brands. I understand your point about originality when it comes to historically based designs, I mean there are a lot of type X's with the same cross guard, but replicating something from history and stealing a more unique design is imo a little different. I think his point is that it’s a bit rich for people to accuse DSA of stealing when in fact everybody is doing so because everybody, bar those making exact copies of medieval swords, are using a limited number of blade, hilt and pommel designs.
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Post by Siward on Jul 22, 2019 7:32:49 GMT
Why turn a good review into a manufacturer fan war at all? See my jab at DSA's belt suspension systems in the Witcher thread. Clarification provided. Yeah except Valiant’s suspension systems don’t work either so that’s a criticism not unique to DSA
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Post by Siward on Jul 22, 2019 7:38:09 GMT
I find this amusing. How do you feel about the Ronin Euro models? Not to break your very shaky mindset on the subject, but every design they use is "stolen" from smaller European forges. Proof? Otherwise it feels like you're calling wolf like your other thread about them (where you say you jumped to conclusions and that they didn't actually copy the Elgur piece). Actually if you look at the RK Italian swords they possess more than a passing resemblance to the Arundel and Brighton by VA. I happen to love all 4 designs so I don’t care but some people used the same sort of resemblances to hit DSA with another stick.
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Post by zabazagobo on Jul 22, 2019 7:40:19 GMT
See my jab at DSA's belt suspension systems in the Witcher thread. Clarification provided. Yeah except Valiant’s suspension systems don’t work either so that’s a criticism not unique to DSA Never said it was...? But yeah, flopping around at odd angles just isn't a good design. Makes backmounting look good in comparison. Which was the joke following 'what's next, front-mounting?' in response to Gunnar's joke.
And yes, the bit about 'historical copying' is just silly. I mean, a reproduction is technically a copy, and this forum is about reproduction swords, so...
On the other hand, I recall there being bits about more creative designs being pilfered, which is a valid point of criticism.
But bloody hell, this thread is getting super derailed. Probably best to just can this tangent on this thread.
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Post by Siward on Jul 22, 2019 7:43:10 GMT
Absolutely. From this moment on, I refuse to read through, much less comment in, another thread involving DSA. The damned horse is DEAD...stop the beating. Jeez....... That's a shame. DSA makes a good sword. Actually I think Christians point is that people are bringing up the same old accusations against DSA rather than new ones. Bit like people saying they’re never buying BMW again because there happened to be an issue with the 4-cyl high pressure models released 15 years ago.
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Post by Siward on Jul 22, 2019 7:47:38 GMT
Yeah except Valiant’s suspension systems don’t work either so that’s a criticism not unique to DSA Never said it was...? But yeah, flopping around at odd angles just isn't a good design. Makes backmounting look good in comparison. Which was the joke following 'what's next, front-mounting?' in response to Gunnar's joke.
And yes, the bit about 'historical copying' is just silly. I mean, a reproduction is technically a copy, and this forum is about reproduction swords, so...
On the other hand, I recall there being bits about more creative designs being pilfered, which is a valid point of criticism.
Excerpt it’s not, see my answer about RK’s Italian swords and VA’s Brighton and Arundel. The bottom line is we should apply the same approach for judging equally to all manufacturers. I think we do it right with RK, I think we’re ridiculously harsh with DSA.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jul 22, 2019 7:54:37 GMT
I guess I'm just a little confused about why you're calling it stolen, Or stolen from lower end brands. I understand your point about originality when it comes to historically based designs, I mean there are a lot of type X's with the same cross guard, but replicating something from history and stealing a more unique design is imo a little different. I think his point is that it’s a bit rich for people to accuse DSA of stealing when in fact everybody is doing so because everybody, bar those making exact copies of medieval swords, are using a limited number of blade, hilt and pommel designs. I'm not one to jump on the anti - DSA bandwagon anymore (partially for reasons Paul stated, and due to the fact that they make nothing of interest to me), but whataboutism doesn't help anyone and just devalues what someone is arguing for. There is good argument to be made for the good side of DSA. Claiming "well other companies do the same thing" doesn't do anything. It just drives vendors farther away than they are now... And I mean, it's more than that though the farther back you go. Look, I ain't saying that they ain't shady as all hell. They even flat out admitted that they stole a design from a custom swordsmith for one of their swords when they were accused of stealing a design off Albion. And the funny thing was, the changes they made to the historical original could have all been easily explained away as cost cutting measures which made it look like the Albion sword. But Eyal being Eyal, went on a tirade and said that one of their other sword was a custom piece somebody asked for based on a custom design by a swordsmith in LA (i believe), which is dubious and unethical to begin with, and than used that to make a production sword...which is flat out stealing. There is so much wrong with DSA, you don't even need to go into suspected accusations like a wooden core have a Chinese symbol for wood on it. And the fact that their products are basically junk in the hand should pretty much be the be all end all of why you should spend money elsewhere if you want a proper sword. Because there are plenty of other companies who gives you better swords for half the price. And if you MUST have something made in western world...good news, Del Tin from Europe costs as much as DSA does. And compared to their elite lines you have A&A, Albion, Lockwood, Atrim and custom options that will blow the the quality of those swords out of the water with sword that actually feel proper for their type. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/53895/opinions-darksword-armory-elite-line?page=2Or the shipping ledgers that have suspiciously DSA sounding sword names being shipped from India to Canada? Or the European vendors with very similar swords? This will be the last post I make on this subject. The horse has been beaten to hell and back, then to heaven, then back to earth, and then back to hell, and so on and so forth. If DSA is improving, then good. But it's not like they're totally innocent aside from "stealing historical designs" and the past (and now perhaps resolved) tang issues. Obviously some folks want to stir the pot, either way in offense of or defense of DSA. Just don't reply to them. This whole, altogether worthless (what's really being gained from another DSA review turned into a bash thread?) thread line.
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