admin
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Post by admin on Apr 3, 2019 1:17:23 GMT
I posted an update on it in the M&V section and here on the Legendary Swords blog - but in a nutshell, the recent cancellation of the Seraph Aegis sword run and launch failure sales wise of the BCI shipment has meant that we are over budget in a big way and that the project appears to be intrinsically flawed..
After a hiatus to get over the disappointment I will go back to the drawing board and find a way forward for the project as a whole.
But based on fairly extensive results to date and series of failures, it appears that I have totally overestimated interest in original functional fantasy swords (probably due to my own bias and interest).
Moving forward, it looks like the project will move away from SBGs core focus on functional swords and if replicas are made in the future, they will be decorative swords only.
Time to lick my wounds and slowly make some new plans. Too much work has been done to date to just call it a day, but I definitely want to take some time away from it..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 1:31:54 GMT
I recently put together my own fantasy sword from a blank from Scorpion Swords; this was on a serious budget. I think the Seraph Aegis is stunning, but I certainly cannot afford it. So I put together my own piece as a compromise. There is a demand for functional fantasy swords, but perhaps within a certain budget.
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admin
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Post by admin on Apr 3, 2019 3:37:37 GMT
There is a demand for functional fantasy swords, but perhaps within a certain budget. True, but the fantasy swords from the project so far are mostly around $500 (from $274 to $600) and they still just sit there unfortunately..
I am suspecting that I am finding out the hard way that the market for Fantasy swords is basically sub $100 wallhangers, licensed replicas and high end customs - so attempting to bridge the gap is perhaps doomed to failure as the market simply isn't there.
So I guess these might be one offs..
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 12:33:49 GMT
There is a demand for functional fantasy swords, but perhaps within a certain budget. True, but the fantasy swords from the project so far are mostly around $500 (from $274 to $600) and they still just sit there unfortunately..
I am suspecting that I am finding out the hard way that the market for Fantasy swords is basically sub $100 wallhangers, licensed replicas and high end customs - so attempting to bridge the gap is perhaps doomed to failure as the market simply isn't there.
So I guess these might be one offs..
What if you redirected the project ever so slightly? There are several historical swords I would like to be replicated, but they either cost way too much or they have to be imported from Europe. For example: I would like to own a reproduction of a Cossack shashka. Hanwei and Windlass have made them, but they are not ideal. I could have one imported from Georgia, but that is rather costly and it can take some time. There are a few eastern swords I would like to own too, like a yataghan. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 3, 2019 13:22:15 GMT
Honestly, I don't think it's really due to a general lack of interest in functional fantasy swords, but more a matter of that interest largely not coinciding with the buying power to support it. Plus somewhat limited exposure in an already niche market; offering the swords through KoA and other major retailers, either instead of or in addition to their own dedicated site, would give a much larger pool of potential customers. Also, nine months is really an eternity in marketing terms, and I think any awareness the initial announcement garnered has had way too much time to dwindle off since. Things kinda started with a bang and have slowed down towards the end - like most passion-more-than-profit-driven projects do, to be fair - which is the exact opposite of how successful commercial marketing campaigns build up hype. PS. Sorry, and, to be clear, no offense or criticism intended! I was AFK when the project was planned and started, and offering advice in hindsight feels a little gauche...  |
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admin
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Post by admin on Apr 3, 2019 14:39:56 GMT
The issue with niche swords like the Yataghan and co is that they are a niche within a niche within a micro-niche.. (Swords are a very small niche, functional swords less than 10% of the sword market - and relatively unknown sword types less than 5% of that)..
I recall we have offered the Hanwei Shashka before at huge discounts because they were not selling well generally. But even at a steep discount close to the actual cost price, total sales at our end was a big fat zero. Twice..
Also, as you note, they didn't get it quite right - and the more specific the niche, the more it needs to be perfect - and so that's why few manufacturers are brave or cashed up enough to take a risk..
Not really possible to change the direction of the site to historical swords - that's really a new project entirely as we have literally invested thousands upon thousands of dollars in art work, webcomics, designs, etc and there's no way to salvage that if we move towards rarer sword types..
True enough, from a marketing point of view it is the reverse of the ideal. In a perfect world, and with hindsight, yeah - maybe we should have run a sword design competition and gave away some small prize - then revealed that we made real swords from it, roll out the website and - well, something like that..
Biggest issue though is that there isn't enough profit at this price point to be able to list them at KoA - we only just scraped in at the target price, and thought that by offering an awesome deal on really lovingly hand made swords, they would sell on their own merit - regardless of the website that supports them..
The offer went out to around 20,000+ people, and of those, maybe 25% (5,000) have at least read about it on day one. A 1% result, which in marketing would be on the high side of average to quite good, would mean maybe 50 orders..
We scored something like a 0.025 response or worse, which is in marketing terms a total fail and suggests that the project is fatally flawed..
That's about all I can say right now - I really didn't expect this to fail like it did after a series of failures (you might recall the release of the first swords by Scorpion Swords spawned a thread 'why aren't they selling?', then the forge direct offerings did not sell as well as other forge direct swords, then the Black Dragon Bakemono Jintachi had to be discounted to cost price, then the Seraph Aegis discontinued and now - the last hope - this.. Also failed)..
The only sword that was a success was Odins Oar, which would have been a success anywhere regardless.
Only so many times you can keep picking yourself up before you realize this battle is lost and you need to make a strategic retreat and plan how to salvage what you can out of the ashes..
That's about where we are now, and to be honest, I am rather exhausted by it all and would rather not think about it for a while..
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Post by elbrittania39 on Apr 3, 2019 14:50:06 GMT
We all appreciate the work you did on this, but don't run yourself ragged. I don't need any special events to enjoy my time here  |
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pattyb0009
Member
Getting into antique sabers...
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Post by pattyb0009 on Apr 3, 2019 14:55:47 GMT
Someone just bought a Vorpal sword for me as a gift this morning, in fact. It is a stunning sword. I will, however, have Mr. Huerta rewrap the grip when he can.
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LH
Member
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Post by LH on Apr 3, 2019 15:19:08 GMT
I have never been very interested in fantasy swords and none of these designs really speak to me. Except the Seraph Aegis but unfortunately it's out of my price range. I'm not really interested in the story either so none of the swords mean anything to me. I guess that's a problem with many others too.
Maybe you should do a poll about what kind of swords people would like to get from sbg shop and at what price point?
I would love to have some mid price viking swords. Or maybe some axes. I like katanas too and you have many kinds to choose from so I have bought one from you before.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 3, 2019 15:51:19 GMT
I would buy them. Really. Probably not all of them, but the Castir and the Vorpal for sure. I literally fevered (at least a little) waiting for them to become true steel. I am much more a budget/mid range sword buyer, and functional fantasy swords are EXACTLY my thing! My first swords were those shown on SBG in the "old" times: Gen2 Chaos, Windlass Raptor, Gen2 Flame, Gen2 Ranger... And now you closed us out. What shall we do over here in Europe? Sure, my two or three swords wouldnt save the project, but a quite big group of potential buyers has just been pushed away. That was not your intention, i know that... but the statements given here are just not representing reality. Why does Zombie Tools still deliver to Europe via USPS? And according to them, problems just occur scarcely? Why does LG Martial Arts still offer USPS shipping to Germany? Really, and please believe me: i talked to some german and other european members/readers of SBG forum, and most of them feel a little bit offended by the way things are named from our side ("EU sword ban"). But they prefer to keep their mouths shut. Well not me, of course, as always. Now, its pretty easy to slam the warning- or the ban-hammer at me... but i tend to say what i FEEL. Emotion! I dont "plan" rants to confront/attack people! In this special case you make me just feel like a mule with some BIG steel carrots held in front of him that cant be reached. And the... questionable speculations from Ronin Katanas CEO or whatever surely dont help us much here. So, again: if you can offer me SOME other reasonable way to get the sword(s) i want over here i would be more than happy to buy!
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Post by randomnobody on Apr 3, 2019 16:11:53 GMT
oldvesimer raises a fair point that I hadn't previously considered. Picking it out from the rest of the rant, it is true that a tremendous number of potential buyers are not lost in interest or funds, but location.
Since SBG has (temporarily?) stopped shipments to, well, let's just call it pretty much the entirety of Europe...that's a lot of people who may very much want to buy, and be able to do so right now, woo can't because of current shipping restrictions.
Everything about this seems to have fallen into some really bad timing...
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,714
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Post by stormmaster on Apr 3, 2019 16:25:02 GMT
I like rare swords, as u may know I recently picked up a storta which is a Italian renaissance falchion. I'm all about unique swords and interesting things, I mean I literally got a reverse edge falchion being made for me in pattern weld just because I've never seen one done like that before and so thought it would be interesting. The problem I had with these swords is that ive basically moved on to other things at this point in time, when I first heard about them all those months ago I was intrigued but after not knowing when or if they would arrived after so long when they suddenly did I had already put my money into other projects and so I guess the timing was just bad for me as they dropped without notice after so long
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Post by MOK on Apr 3, 2019 21:20:36 GMT
True enough, from a marketing point of view it is the reverse of the ideal. In a perfect world, and with hindsight, yeah - maybe we should have run a sword design competition and gave away some small prize - then revealed that we made real swords from it, roll out the website and - well, something like that.. Well, I wouldn't recommend that, bait-and-switching almost never works as intended - off the top of my head, I can think of exactly one successful campaign like that in the history of ever (at least for values of "ever" equal to "within my memory"). What I meant was that you need to keep up a constant, steady trickle of news, teasers, previews and updates, splashed with major attention-grabbing highlights at regular intervals, for the whole duration of the campaign - you have to keep giving people stuff to talk about all the way until after the actual product has been released. In practice this means having an entire campaign-long schedule of promo material planned out and ready to go right from the start, and then working long term to stick to that schedule as things develop. That can be a hell of a lot of work, even for a professional marketing team! (Coders aren't the only demographic who tend to wince at the sound of the word "crunch".  ) I may be slightly cynical, but in my experience NOTHING ever sells all on its own merits. EVER. You absolutely need marketing and repeated exposure no matter how good and appealing your product is. That's one reason why keeping up good word-of-mouth is so crucial to small businesses. But, yeah, seriously, don't run yourself to the ground! Burnout does no body any good. You 100% deserve a break or several after all you've done already, and don't let anybody (including yourself!) tell you otherwise. |
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 4, 2019 1:46:42 GMT
stormmaster I'm totally in the same boat as you. It's been roughly 9-10 months or so from when I remember hearing about the Danu, the Aelutian Gladius, Castir and Vorpal, and there was sort of just static silence about them. I remember a post about the prototypes, but then shipping limbo, and nothing about them since. When all of a sudden they did show up in the last week or so, I had already blown the budget I'm comfortable spending on swords with some fancy folded stuff last fall/winter. (And I've become indoctrinated into the sabre club, so there's another money pit...) I still want to nab the Danu, as that's just such an awesome design, but it'll have to wait a bit til I feel comfortable plunking down the cash for it. The Vorpal looks perfect specs-wise, and I've been craving another longsword with a blade of this type, but the position of the stitching on the handle really turns me off. It's a tactile/grip thing for me and so that bit concerns me. As a huge fan of Japanese styled swords, I should be all over the Castir, but it being a 28 inch blade was sort of a let-down seeing as how I was envisioning this epic tachi/o-katana type of sword with extra oomph. Owning a surplus of katana already, this particular design lost a bit of momentum for me when I'd rather just have something with a fancy hamon and groovy masame and mokume and the like. Just my thoughts, although I really do like the designs of all of them.
I really think this is a product line with a lot of potential, as the designs are truly quite well thought-out, but I just think that the product line is stumbling from compound niche-ing, market wise. I'm just not sure the SBG newsletter subscription figures are an accurate gauge for engagement, as Edelweiss really took the time to point out from a very rational perspective on the other thread. I think if the word got out about these swords and some added hype marketing, like, say, 'watch the Vorpal prove it's legend', footage and promotion would go a long ways to spreading product awareness. Extending the product line to KoA, which gets a fair amount of traffic, would also be a no brainer. And heck, Museum Replicas is obsessed with fantasy and cosplay nowadays, so why not shoot them a line to collaborate?
Maybe as another idea to consider...fancy folds, whirls and twirls...maybe get creative with the steel and polishing to make the swords appear as if they are mystical weapons? I'm a sucker for folded steel, and seeing a cool pattern welded Danu would be all sorts of awesome from an artistic standpoint. Just another possible direction, aside from the more pressing issue of just raising brand awareness. I am bummed sales are slumping, but I do think with the right push these swords will really take off.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,714
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Post by stormmaster on Apr 4, 2019 1:53:20 GMT
this is personal preference but i think i would of preferred the fittings to be a antiqued or at least not so shiny looking, for legendary swords the fittings are just really shiny
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Post by elbrittania39 on Apr 4, 2019 1:53:28 GMT
(And I've become indoctrinated into the sabre club, so there's another money pit...)
Ladies and gentlemen....we got him |
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,714
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Post by stormmaster on Apr 4, 2019 1:55:43 GMT
(And I've become indoctrinated into the sabre club, so there's another money pit...)
Ladies and gentlemen....we got him i too am looking for a sabre atm |
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 4, 2019 1:57:11 GMT
(And I've become indoctrinated into the sabre club, so there's another money pit...)
Ladies and gentlemen....we got him If I had known the dark side served chocolate stouts, I would've switched sooner |
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Post by elbrittania39 on Apr 4, 2019 1:59:57 GMT
Ladies and gentlemen....we got him If I had known the dark side served chocolate stouts, I would've switched sooner Chocolate is a post age of exploration commodity. Truly a flavor only the saber is compatible with |
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Post by elbrittania39 on Apr 4, 2019 2:00:42 GMT
Ladies and gentlemen....we got him i too am looking for a sabre atm Eastern though right? |
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