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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 7:33:59 GMT
Yes. i believe there is quite some lying going on in here; at least cases of distorted truth. This affair, and some special vendor worshipping. I will deliver you now from my presence. |
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Post by Siward on Apr 12, 2019 8:05:48 GMT
If I can get to what I think is the core of Oldvesemir’s point, which is that USPS is clearly delivering to some European countries and therefore it’s not a European issue just some countries.
I made this point much earlier in the debate I might add.
Oldvesemir’s in Germany and there doesn’t seem to be an issue there.
Ok, so that’s one side of it.
On the flip side, for those Europeans unaware of how we’re viewed in the rest of the world, we are Europe not the dictatorship that is the EU but rather the geographical entity that sits between the Atlantic and what is considered to be the start of the Asia land mass.
Asking those in the world to refer to Europe as singular countries is like asking us to refer to individual US states rather than the US.
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Post by strigoil on Apr 12, 2019 8:21:54 GMT
Good points Siward, and I was early to make similar points myself, I just think Vesemir here is very aggressive/defensive in his communication of them, and takes it a bit far.
And as true as it is that EU and Europe are not the same thing, and that it is much more likely to be some type of carrier issue, from the vendors side I also absolutely understand the decision.
If a large amount of European countries suddenly can't receive their packages for whatever reason, and there is no rhyme or reason as to why, it's costing your business money, you just stop shipping to the region instead of risking it.
The same would make sense if suddenly 30 or 40 states in the US stopped accepting a certain type or product from Europe and there is no proper communication from the states that do this why, you have no information, so you just stop shipping to the US entirely.
The mistake Vesemir did, in my opinion was get aggressive, treating the entire issue as some type of attack against him, europe or the EU, I frankly don't know at this point, a more diplomatic approach would have gotten him much less issues, as the ones who made the same statements in a more relaxed manner (Including myself) received no flak, so let that be a lesson in how to conduct oneself and get ones points across, I guess?
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Post by William Swiger on Apr 12, 2019 9:44:38 GMT
Damn - Holger jumped ship again.
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Post by neuronic on Apr 12, 2019 11:45:17 GMT
On the flip side, for those Europeans unaware of how we’re viewed in the rest of the world, we are Europe not the dictatorship that is the EU but rather the geographical entity that sits between the Atlantic and what is considered to be the start of the Asia land mass. ...well, of course the EU is not a "dictatorship" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship), actually it's pretty much the most democratic institutional area in the world and by all means the opposite of a dictorship... But then again there are certain people who make their own facts. And of course most of them are just some kind of trolls who got disappointed or unscrupulous careerists with a weird personal and/or political agenda. So... go figure. This USPS thing is... well, it's a USPS thing. And Holg... well, Holg is Holg. He's got a pretty short fuse but he's an upright person. He'll be back, I guess  |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 12:13:56 GMT
Looking over this thread and filtering out the emotion, it appears that certain companies are shipping successfully into the EU by modifying the description of the goods on the bill of lading. Years ago I was called into a meeting with our shipping department over this exact issue. The Marketing department wanted to change the description to so we could save money on shipping. We had to bring in an outside consultant who explained the consequences.
In a nutshell, if you got caught doing that, the penalty under US law at the time was a fine of up to $250,000 and 10 years in prison, levied against the person whose signature appeared on the shipping manifest. That pretty much shut down the marketing guys, because they flat out refused to sign the manifest (I was brought in to make sure the correct classification was used.)
Now this was fifteen years ago, so I don't know if those rules and penalties are still in force, but I personally would not recommend playing with the bill of lading unless you understand EXACTLY what the consequences might be.
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Post by Siward on Apr 12, 2019 13:12:19 GMT
On the flip side, for those Europeans unaware of how we’re viewed in the rest of the world, we are Europe not the dictatorship that is the EU but rather the geographical entity that sits between the Atlantic and what is considered to be the start of the Asia land mass. ...well, of course the EU is not a "dictatorship" (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dictatorship), actually it's pretty much the most democratic institutional area in the world and by all means the opposite of a dictorship... But then again there are certain people who make their own facts. And of course most of them are just some kind of trolls who got disappointed or unscrupulous careerists with a weird personal and/or political agenda. So... go figure. This USPS thing is... well, it's a USPS thing. And Holg... well, Holg is Holg. He's got a pretty short fuse but he's an upright person. He'll be back, I guess Ummm say what ? The EU commission which makes the laws, treaties etc... is an unelected body ie not democratic. The European Parliament which is elected has almost zero power. So how is that a democratic area when the bit we vote on has no power  Example #1 TTIP which European MEP’s could read, only in a locked room, without any electronic devices and were not allowed to take it away with them to digest. Even though the treaty was several hundred pages of lawyer language, in other words would take days to read and understand. Who could read it wherever they wanted and negotiated the treaty points with the US ? the EU Commission members. |
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2019 13:53:56 GMT
Listen, folks, I'm gonna resist my urge to comment in order to put my mod hat on for just a moment.
I know we're typically fairly lax about enforcing this rule, but since tempers already got high enough for someone to ragequit (again) over it, how about we drop the political discussion for now, please?
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Post by Siward on Apr 12, 2019 14:58:24 GMT
Yep sorry, back to swords 😎
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Post by Croccifixio on Apr 12, 2019 15:09:58 GMT
Damn - Holger jumped ship again. He tends to do that at the most random topics. I mean, this is a problem SBG and Ronin are facing. The fact that others do not experience it does not invalidate what they say (although the initial approach seemed to make a sweeping generalization of shipping to Europe being impossible, the facts as presented were pretty clear). He could just drop the info that other sellers are able to ship to Germany and leave it at that. But I love the Holg and hope he’ll be back again one day once he’a cooled off. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 15:42:15 GMT
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Post by MOK on Apr 12, 2019 16:48:41 GMT
Look, edelweiss, a picture may be worth a thousand words, but with no context provided there's no way of knowing which of all those possible words you actually mean to communicate, here. I can guess, but I don't want to be putting words in your mouth. So, just a quick remark or pithy quip to inform us what about those screencaps it is that you wanted to point out would help us basic no-brainers keep up.
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Post by bebut on Apr 12, 2019 19:08:58 GMT
Every time I ship something by usps they verbally ask me if it is "dangerous". Mostly they are looking for lithium batteries or other flammables.
Now, I don't consider a sword wrapped up so it can't dig its way out of the box to be "dangerous", but it might not pass the snowflake test in the post office.
Somebody who has taken a bonafide loss ("standing") needs to ask their Representative or Senator for an explanation of just why usps is taking this arbitrary position of restricting freedom of commerce and doing financial harm to innocent parties with no legal basis.
Also. if swords are legal to own and legal to ship, one should not have to dummy up shipping labels lest some postal employee gets out of his safe zone. Not saying it is a bad idea to ship everything as "sporting goods", but it shouldn't be required. For decades many shippers of collectible coins, cameras, and other high-theft items have doctored their return addresses, etc., to lessen their risks.
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 12, 2019 19:32:20 GMT
 Indeed. |
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 12, 2019 19:48:59 GMT
Damn - Holger jumped ship again. He tends to do that at the most random topics. I mean, this is a problem SBG and Ronin are facing. The fact that others do not experience it does not invalidate what they say (although the initial approach seemed to make a sweeping generalization of shipping to Europe being impossible, the facts as presented were pretty clear). He could just drop the info that other sellers are able to ship to Germany and leave it at that. But I love the Holg and hope he’ll be back again one day once he’a cooled off. Exactly what I was about to type, so I'll just say "ditto" I just don't understand why those who are pointing out that the vernacular used was indeed misleading are continuously critiqued, and why some feel the need to keep drudging this up as some sort of debate. There's nothing to debate. There is, and should be, discussion of what type of shipping works, and to where. Looking for solutions for vendors such as SBG and Ronin who have suddenly had terrible luck with shipping to certain European countries. admin Paul, it's probably a good idea to mention specifically which countries have rejected shipments. Those are the ones who should be investigated more, given that others have provided information that shipping is not uniformly impossible to an entire continent and that the EU has no ban or legislation stipulating a blanket prohibition of sword related parcels. Perhaps the manner by which parcels are declared provide problems. How do you declare shipments? If the packages rejected use terms such as "heavy duty cutter" or "sharp cutting sword for traditional targets", I could see some more squeamish folk in postal services turning sour, as such terms leave quite a bit open to interpretation, whereas "fencing equipment" or "training/practice sword" are more friendly to those unfamiliar with swords. |
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Apr 12, 2019 20:33:43 GMT
He tends to do that at the most random topics. I mean, this is a problem SBG and Ronin are facing. The fact that others do not experience it does not invalidate what they say (although the initial approach seemed to make a sweeping generalization of shipping to Europe being impossible, the facts as presented were pretty clear). He could just drop the info that other sellers are able to ship to Germany and leave it at that. But I love the Holg and hope he’ll be back again one day once he’a cooled off. Exactly what I was about to type, so I'll just say "ditto" I just don't understand why those who are pointing out that the vernacular used was indeed misleading are continuously critiqued, and why some feel the need to keep drudging this up as some sort of debate. There's nothing to debate. There is, and should be, discussion of what type of shipping works, and to where. Looking for solutions for vendors such as SBG and Ronin who have suddenly had terrible luck with shipping to certain European countries. admin Paul, it's probably a good idea to mention specifically which countries have rejected shipments. Those are the ones who should be investigated more, given that others have provided information that shipping is not uniformly impossible to an entire continent and that the EU has no ban or legislation stipulating a blanket prohibition of sword related parcels. Perhaps the manner by which parcels are declared provide problems. How do you declare shipments? If the packages rejected use terms such as "heavy duty cutter" or "sharp cutting sword for traditional targets", I could see some more squeamish folk in postal services turning sour, as such terms leave quite a bit open to interpretation, whereas "fencing equipment" or "training/practice sword" are more friendly to those unfamiliar with swords. I seem to remember that when I ordered a Ryujin Custom from the SBG store last year the package came labelled as a 'training sword', so labels that may not be the source of the problem, though I may be wrong. |
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Apr 12, 2019 20:45:03 GMT
Due to the terrorist attacks in Europe in the last years it's possible that importing any kind of weapon is more problematic and especially if they are declared not as a weapon, or as a weapon, I don't know.
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 12, 2019 20:52:43 GMT
I seem to remember that when I ordered a Ryujin Custom from the SBG store last year the package came labelled as a 'training sword', so labels that may not be the source of the problem, though I may be wrong. Right, so if it turns out that the labels are as such, and there isn't anything really suspicious about them, it may boil down to what Andi mentioned where certain parcel services/companies working with certain agencies are just a bit jumpy due to recent events.
It's kind of like how shipping these sorts of things throughout the U.S. is generally fun and fast, until California, New Jersey and York get involved with their own shenanigans.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 12, 2019 21:32:58 GMT
Look, edelweiss, a picture may be worth a thousand words, but with no context provided there's no way of knowing which of all those possible words you actually mean to communicate, here. I can guess, but I don't want to be putting words in your mouth. So, just a quick remark or pithy quip to inform us what about those screencaps it is that you wanted to point out would help us basic no-brainers keep up. The point and issue is signal to noise and the chatter (persistent noise) less associated to information presented pages ago from two of the producers. Although that information does seem to come across to some, one might actually read my own thoughts in my first two replies in this thread. This then becomes a fifth post from me in the thread. What I am pointing out is the dross accumulating upon the truffles. As I am not in Europe, I could post that folk can just suck it but in my first two posts are what I feel are relevant to the original signal. Much of the rest (including the above screenshots) rather typical pointy stick in the eye posts and rebuttals to those resulting in pages of useless information. |
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Post by zabazagobo on Apr 12, 2019 21:43:03 GMT
Look, edelweiss, a picture may be worth a thousand words, but with no context provided there's no way of knowing which of all those possible words you actually mean to communicate, here. I can guess, but I don't want to be putting words in your mouth. So, just a quick remark or pithy quip to inform us what about those screencaps it is that you wanted to point out would help us basic no-brainers keep up. The point and issue is signal to noise and the chatter (persistent noise) less associated to information presented pages ago from two of the producers. Although that information does seem to come across to some, one might actually read my own thoughts in my first two replies in this thread. This then becomes a fifth post from me in the thread. What I am pointing out is the dross accumulating upon the truffles. As I am not in Europe, I could post that folk can just suck it but in my first two posts are what I feel are relevant to the original signal. Much of the rest (including the above screenshots) rather typical pointy stick in the eye posts and rebuttals to those resulting in pages of useless information. Precisely. My own posts approximated yours. Now I'm once more abstaining from this thread since, indeed, as I don't work with European customs or parcel services, any subsequent posts of mine just continues the noise.
Without concrete information on specifics regarding SBG and Ronin's issues with shipping to specific countries, this thread really can't serve much utility besides to drive some people up the wall.
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