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Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 27, 2019 0:23:23 GMT
What are the pros and cons of different common sword cross sections? I know some basic stuff like triangular blades are stiff and can't cut, but I'm wondering about some more obscure cross sections like hexagons and what they give you in a swords preformance.
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christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on Mar 27, 2019 0:49:49 GMT
Most of my swords are on the larger size and have fullers and they make for impressive performance. But, the broad fullers on Viking models make for oversized razor blades...my H/T Norman for instance. Scary sharp and will take out a water bottle in a heartbeat.
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Post by leviathansteak on Mar 27, 2019 1:05:01 GMT
As i understand, a diamond cross section can negatively affect cutting due to the raised midrib providing resistance. A lenticular or hexagonal shouldnt have this issue so perhaps the cutting performance is better.
I can't confirm it as its all hearsay from my end
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 27, 2019 1:11:03 GMT
I can't say I've seen much discussion on this, but it's a great question. Unfortunately, I feel like a lot of it will be speculation and anecdotal.
For instance, among that graphic, I'd be inclined to think the broad fuller would make the best cutting sword, followed by hexagonal, then lenticular. I don't know which would come next, but I do believe the thickened diamond would be the least effective cutter. Reverse that order, probably, for thrusting.
Even this graphic leaves out a few cross sections. Granted, it's a simplified representation of medieval European double-edged swords, thus excluding single-edged swords entirely with just enough wiggle room to include double-edged swords from other parts of the world.
In the Japanese sword world, for instance, it's pretty widely accepted that a wide, thin, flat-ground hira-zukuri (single bevel, no ridges) makes the best mat cutter. A similarly wide and thin shinogi-zukuri is generally promoted for "best overall" but there's still others.
I'm curious to pipe-backs and T-sections, as those are favorites of my own, though I concede the wide spine doubtless impedes cuts in a noticable way. I think something like a pala, with a thin, T-section base curving into a broad, flat tip with a yelman would offer fantastic compromise, though. I need to acquire one some day...
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 27, 2019 1:37:10 GMT
Hex maximises stiffness for a given thickness, at the cost of more weight. Good if you want a thin cutting blade that is also fairly stiff for thrusting. Lenticular and broad fullered are related - not as stiff for the same thickness, but lighter, and can be better choices for a more cutting-focussed blade.
Hollow diamond and T-spine maximise stiffness for weight, at the cost of reduced cutting once the ridge/spine hits the target. Also good for an acute edge angle, so it has features that are good for cutting as well as features that are bad for cutting. The stiffness is good for thrusting. Swords like the T-spined kilij have a stiff base of the blade due to the T-spine, and usually no problem with cutting due to the spine since the cutting portion near the tip isn't T-spined.
Flattened diamond is a compromise between the above two. Reasonably good stiffness for good thrusting, not so thick as to impede cutting too much, reasonably acute edge angle for cutting soft stuff.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 27, 2019 2:23:03 GMT
Hex maximises stiffness for a given thickness, at the cost of more weight. Good if you want a thin cutting blade that is also fairly stiff for thrusting. Lenticular and broad fullered are related - not as stiff for the same thickness, but lighter, and can be better choices for a more cutting-focussed blade. Hollow diamond and T-spine maximise stiffness for weight, at the cost of reduced cutting once the ridge/spine hits the target. Also good for an acute edge angle, so it has features that are good for cutting as well as features that are bad for cutting. The stiffness is good for thrusting. Swords like the T-spined kilij have a stiff base of the blade due to the T-spine, and usually no problem with cutting due to the spine since the cutting portion near the tip isn't T-spined. Flattened diamond is a compromise between the above two. Reasonably good stiffness for good thrusting, not so thick as to impede cutting too much, reasonably acute edge angle for cutting soft stuff. Thanks, that makes a lot of sense and is inline with some historical stats I've found
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Post by zabazagobo on Mar 27, 2019 3:05:10 GMT
My rudimentary understanding is pretty much what Timo stated.
Thick Diamond: Excellent for the thrust, and little else
Long Dimaond: Better at the cut, still not the greatest due to elevated ridge which messes up the blade passing through as the material gets hung up on the ridge
Hollow Ground: Better entry angle for the cut but then the ridge hits, so the ridge should be less pronounced or the cut won't be the best
Hexagonal: Way better for the cut, good entry angle and then a smooth flat with no flaring ridge for impeding performance
Lenticular: Sort of like a katana with heavy niku, a powerful cutter with nice edge durability. A good hacker, chopper, what have you
As uneducated as I am with the aforementioned geometries, I'm even less educated when it comes to fullers. But intuitively I like the looks of a broad fuller best since it seems like the cut would flow more naturally, especially if paired with hexagonal or lenticular geometry...not too sure though since I don't study double edged designs very much. I just recall diamond style geometries being quite good with thrusting weapons like rapier and parrying daggers, and broad fullered lenticular blades being almost synonymous with "viking" swords, if I remember right.
Very interesting topic though, I think there's lots of fun discussion ahead
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Post by Croccifixio on Apr 8, 2019 7:55:43 GMT
Hira zukuri is my closet favorite, even on western swords (sabers with full grinds from the back).
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