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Post by Zanbatou on Mar 24, 2019 17:57:58 GMT
Hi guys, Im new here, have only two katanas (Autumn Leaf from DK and a Ronin Dojo Pro 12), definitely a beginner. But for a long time have been an admirer of Japanese culture, samurai Bushido and Miamoto Musashi in particular. Well, among blade geometry types the Kissaki-Moroha Zukuri, also reported as Kogarasu-Maru style by some, have attracted me the most, but still couldnt get one of them while looking around for those available in the market.
My first choice was Hanwei raptor moroha zukuri 5160 steel, but as it was discontinued by Hanwei a few years ago, it is not possible to find it for sale anymore (believe me, and Ive tried, and looked around extensively for one of them, not a single available not even used, second handed ones, at least not available for international shipping). Definitely, I fancied that sword, but, too late for me.
Recently, Ive found two interesting opportunities with feature combinations that were appealing: Huawei Hand Forged Kogarasu-Maru Kissaki Moroha Zukuri Hishi-Gami Shinken Mat Cutter (http://www.huaweiswords.com/index.php?route=product/product&path=20_27&product_id=57) and Tsunami-Dragon Battle Ready Clay Tempered Japanese Kogarasu Maru Blade Samurai Katana Sword (https://www.shinken-sword.com/Japanese-Swords/Shinken/Katana/Battle-Ready-Clay-Tempered-Japanese-Kogarasu-Maru-Blade-Samurai-Katana-Sword)
My intended use is occasional-regular tameshigiri practice on a variety of soft-middle-hard targets, have a poor cutting technique that I wish to improve with practice (Im aware that Kogarasu Maru-like blades are not suited for hard targets, like bamboo), besides more subjective autodidact mindbody training. Live in Amazonia, Brazil, very humid tropical conditions, most sword steels rust easily and requires intense weekly maintenance. Price is another problem to me, due to absurdly high import taxes in Brazilian customs (60% of the sword value), I have to stay in sub-300 usd price range.
Then, I came here to ask you, much more experienced katana guys, if you were inclined to get a Kissaki-Moroha Zukuri these days by less than 300 usd, which one would you choose? Thank you very much for any attention.
Best Regards, Zanbatou
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pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Mar 24, 2019 19:10:08 GMT
Welcome to the forum.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 24, 2019 19:27:32 GMT
Welcome to the forum, Zanbatou!
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 24, 2019 22:05:13 GMT
I would suggest going through hardened if you are just starting out. As pretty as a hamon is, it makes the sword less flexible and more lately to take a set on a bad cut.
I personally have not tried any Kogarasu Maru blades, so I have no suggestions on any particular model. I would like to change that one day though
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Post by Cottontail Customs on Mar 24, 2019 23:12:37 GMT
I would recommend starting with an inexpensive but very durable and forgiving model to see if you really like it. if you do and want to upgrade, there are a couple out there for a bit more money and with some upgraded features. Huawei used to make them in t10 steel with hamon and upgraded furniture. the 9260 should be a lot like the Hanwei version only not as big and bulky afaik here is one from Huawei Sword available in their ebay shop or their own website
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Post by Zanbatou on Mar 25, 2019 2:19:52 GMT
Hi guys, Thanks a lot for the welcoming and the inputs so far. Ive been reading this forum for the last one year or so, learning many interesting things through your discussions but just by now this issue of the available kogarasu-maru katana models came into perspective and i decided to put it forward to search for wiser and better informed opinions.
The huawei one is made of 9260 spring steel, through hardened, oil quenched, which seems to be the proper way to treat it in order to become a tough blade, as Ive been reading around. The Huawei heat treatment seems to be fair enough for affordable good quality blades, as is suggested by a number of reviews of their katana models, in this forum and in others. So, it seems Huawei is a well known Chinese seller, with some good reputation in the market, not without problems, but somewhat trustworthy enough.
Tsunami Dragon offers a T10 monosteel kissaki-moroha zukuri blade, differentially hardened, clay tempered, with a beautifully and prominent wavy midare-notare hamon. But, it seems not as well tested and reviewed as Huawei models, so, they are a kind of unknown uncertain promise in terms of their heat treatment and the general quality of their blades. And as far as Ive been reading, T10 and 1095 steels need to have a very sound heat treatment otherwise they become brittle, easily breakable. In this case, TD sounds to me like a blind bet comparing to Huawei.
There are other models around, Ryansword, Lyewswords, Vansword168, ST-nihonto (this seem to have the same blade of TD in different fittings and mounts), even Musashi brand also have a Kogarasu-Maru model, etc. However, among other issues, the problem with these cases, Musashi may be an exception, is that the amount of valid information from independent buyers-reviewers available is very scant to non-extant, so there is a lack of trustable info regarding the quality of these swords. Sometimes even worse, the availability of information concerning a bad reputation and flaws of some of these sellers/brands and their products. That is why the remaining match among Kogarasu-maru inspired blades resulted in the two mentioned above.
...huawei 9260 is starting to seem more adequate for my purposes, plus my novice skills and budget restrictions.
So far, thanks a lot for the feedbacks!
Best regards, Zanbatou
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Post by Silent on Mar 25, 2019 8:37:11 GMT
Huawei 9260 is great sword overall just no hamon :p
I would go for huawei over tsunami dragon 9260(which is cheaper, and has cheaper fittings)
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Post by Zanbatou on Mar 28, 2019 14:21:45 GMT
Thanks for the input, Silent My research continues... yep, I was almost deciding for the huawei 9260, until have found that Swordnarmory is offering Musashi`s moroha zukuri 1060 steel, DH, gunome hamon by half the price of the official Mushashi`s site, on the Fuji katana model, for 110,00 usd. Dont like the tsuba on this katana, but would change it, anyway. So, Im reconsidering these options. But, saw in Koa, a Dinasty Forge tri-steel forged kogarasu maru, Bushi series, that dropped my jawbone, the most elegant blade and fittings on the moroha zukuri shape ive seen around internet sellers...oh my...if I could...unfortunately, for 712 usd it`s placed far way from my budget limits. I know DF have also a cheaper 1060 Kogarasu model, but couldnt find it available anywhere ive looked so far. Yep, keep on looking and reconsidering...
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Post by Zanbatou on May 8, 2019 0:32:01 GMT
Just to keep up the information flow on this issue, Ive opted by the Huawei model. Ive ordered it with Mr. Jacky Chen 3 weeks ago but just a few days ago received a confirmation. Despite long periods of silence, he answered almost all my info requests in a marked laconic fashion, I should say, but no Drama, quite okay. So, deal done for 199 us bucks, plus 40 usd (no free shipping to Brazil). Ive heard good things about their heat treatment on 9260 blades, fair trustable, taking for granted it is TH, oil quenched. Then, decided to give them a credit and acquire and test this sword. Waiting for it`s departure through Hong Kong EMS and eventual arrival here in Amazonia, wish me luck, guys! And thank you very much to all those that answered my post giving their opinions that helped me in many ways to choose that Kogarasu-Maru model. When it arrives and as soon as I run some cuttings with it I will post my initial impressions. Thanks again to this community! All the best, Zanbatou
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Post by Zanbatou on Jul 6, 2019 6:45:46 GMT
Hi guys, My Huawei Kogarasu Maru 9260 through hardened arrived a couple of weeks ago. It came almost perfect, very light and fast, well balanced for my height and strength, firm and sturdy in all fittings, very sharp, even in the upper false edge, so one can cut in a reverse move with a good angle without difficulty. So, it was ok despite a slight bent in the blade for the left, noticed in the first day, so It wasnt caused by my poor technique, very slight it didnt bother me. But thing is, after cutting around 20-25 plastic bottles, something started clacking inside the tsuka, something loose inside producing that Tuk...Tuk anoying sound during fast swungs, thought it might be a broken tsuka, so I dismounted it, and nothing all seemed okay inside, put all pieces back after carefully cleaning everything. It stopped, returning 3 bottles later. Now its permanent, as if the nakago was scratching inside the tsuka, but when I hold the tsuba and turn the tsuka to left and right it gets really disturbing, there is the sound again TUK...TUK...felling like something snapping inside, definetely, something broke inside the tsuka. So, Im not confident anymore to keep on testing it. Thing is, it took too long to arrive in Brazilian Amazonia from Hong Kong, communication with Jacky Chen was not of an easy flow, paid 239 Usd in the total, with shipping cost, plus more 100 usd of import taxes in the customs. Guess mine little crow came more of a little chicken than anything, as a awarded piece, below their supposed quality standard. Bad luck! But do not intend to do business with Huawei again, risky, relatively high cost for a low reward. SBG have warned me to stay away from ebay sellers like Huawei. So, guess Im paying the bet. life goes on.
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Jul 6, 2019 13:30:24 GMT
Tsuka may be broken, or maybe its just very loose around the nakago, as production tsuka tend to be made one size fit all and not adjusted to individual swords. Try shimming or taping the nakago so it fits tighter, maybe that will solve the problem.
o7
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Post by cost on Jul 6, 2019 20:41:53 GMT
Hi guys, My Huawei Kogarasu Maru 9260 through hardened arrived a couple of weeks ago. It came almost perfect, very light and fast, well balanced for my height and strength, firm and sturdy in all fittings, very sharp, even in the upper false edge, so one can cut in a reverse move with a good angle without difficulty. So, it was ok despite a slight bent in the blade for the left, noticed in the first day, so It wasnt caused by my poor technique, very slight it didnt bother me. But thing is, after cutting around 20-25 plastic bottles, something started clacking inside the tsuka, something loose inside producing that Tuk...Tuk anoying sound during fast swungs, thought it might be a broken tsuka, so I dismounted it, and nothing all seemed okay inside, put all pieces back after carefully cleaning everything. It stopped, returning 3 bottles later. Now its permanent, as if the nakago was scratching inside the tsuka, but when I hold the tsuba and turn the tsuka to left and right it gets really disturbing, there is the sound again TUK...TUK...felling like something snapping inside, definetely, something broke inside the tsuka. So, Im not confident anymore to keep on testing it. Thing is, it took too long to arrive in Brazilian Amazonia from Hong Kong, communication with Jacky Chen was not of an easy flow, paid 239 Usd in the total, with shipping cost, plus more 100 usd of import taxes in the customs. Guess mine little crow came more of a little chicken than anything, as a awarded piece, below their supposed quality standard. Bad luck! But do not intend to do business with Huawei again, risky, relatively high cost for a low reward. SBG have warned me to stay away from ebay sellers like Huawei. So, guess Im paying the bet. life goes on. This is a little surprising to hear as Huawei has had a good rep I thought with regards to build quality and customer care. Though I will say I had the same experience with their 9260 that I had from them with the bent blade but that is a common issue with 9260. Just that damn memory steel! And if it's not tempered right it'll begin to go back to the rolled shape it came from. And I did return it but didn't have any problems afterward. He did ban me from buying again so...wait...f Huawei! Lol. Yeah, bad experience from them now that I look at it. eBay isn't really a good place to buy unless it's second hand or it's the same vendor just advertising there too which they do. And sometimes for less! Swordnarmory sells the same for less there I know that! I've even known vendors that won't sell from their own site but sell from eBay (coughskyjirocough) which makes it a pain. The Japanese market is flooded.
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Post by Darth Paunch on Jul 7, 2019 6:49:02 GMT
SBG have warned me to stay away from ebay sellers like Huawei. I really would like to see the post where a well known, respected or senior member/mod of this forum would have spoken against Huawei swords. The overall experience with them seems to be very, very good, which made me start buying from them at all. Look at the review section; around 27 testings/reviews, most of them very good if i remember correctly. I know that buying a lemon hurts - better than most. I am the KING of lemons! But in my personal record for example i went FAR worse with Hanwei than Huawei...
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Post by Zanbatou on Jul 9, 2019 21:23:25 GMT
Thanks for the feedbacks, guys.
Ive read many positive reviews on Huawei swords in this forum, in fact, it encouraged me to choose huawei instead of the cheaper moroha zukuri model from Musashi, 1060 differentialy hardened steel, SwordnArmory are selling for $110 usd. The warning I was refering to was concerning Ebay katana sellers in general (there is an entire article warning on ebay katana dangers, in SBG site!), which Huawei happens to be one of them, with good reputation indeed, which exerted an influence on me, as I said, but I cannot argue against the factthat the one I got came with problems, unfortunately. Two other SBG members, as far as ive searched for during my research days, also reported problems with this ebay seller, one sword that never came after a year or so, and a crooked tsuka on the another 199 usd model from Huawei, a shinogi-zukuri, that one with dark blue ito. Statistically it is negligible, seems that I became the third case, still negligible in the stats, yet a burden on me. So, as I said, I guess it's a case of bad luck more than anything else, but when this bad luck costs a final price around 300$ usd, after paying import tax, I cant afford repeating it, just a matter of better safe than sorry katana policy. Also I cant afford sending back the katana to China for an eventual repair. I just would like to discover what is that hack of TüK...Tük sound everytime I swing fast with a sudden stop, or when I give a second sequencial cut on a plastic bottle. It comes from the junction between the tsuka fuchi, the inferior seppa and the tsuba, definitely it comes from that area. Ive dsmounted the tsuka and removed the fuchi to take a look at the wood, and aparently its not broken (relief). Wondering if i should epoxy all around those pieces to stop that noise. Anyway, thanks for inputs, guys.
Kind regards,
Zanbatou
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Post by Zanbatou on Jul 9, 2019 21:34:46 GMT
Thanks, Raylon, I will try exactly what you suggested!
best,
Zanbatou
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Post by randomnobody on Jul 10, 2019 1:02:47 GMT
Late to this thread, but that's a common issue with katana, sadly. Would be good to have some photos or a video demonstrating the sound and what causes it, but for the most part, shimming the tsuka, wrapping the nakago, or even adding another seppa will probably resolve most of the problem.
If you're not too concerned about taking it apart again, just epoxy the tsuka. You'll have to try really hard to break it.
I've mentioned this before in another thread, but I've got an antique that sometimes picks up a wiggle and noise in the tsuka if I play with it too much. I figured out that the old mekugi tends to slip out, probably because I'm unwittingly pressing it, and due to its conical shape, it's no longer filling the holes properly and things get loose and wiggle. Pushing it back in fixes this, but I don't know if it's a solution to your problem as I'm pretty sure the mekugi are probably not conical in your sword. Correct me if I'm wrong.
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Post by Zanbatou on Jul 10, 2019 2:08:16 GMT
No problem, the thread is still open, Random. I will try wrapping the nakago and see what happens. Dont think the problem is with the mekugis they seem very firmly seated on their holes. Yeah, epoxying will cause further impossibility of dismounting, cleaning, exchanging parts, customizing, so there are plenty disadvantages in epoxying. Im reconsidering that idea as a plan c. Will try the shimmimg, wrapping nakago hypothesis. Also check for a seppa replacement with that on my ronin katana dojo pro and see what goes on. Thanks for your inputs, bro. All the best, Zanbatou
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Post by Darth Paunch on Jul 10, 2019 5:00:45 GMT
No problem, the thread is still open, Random. I will try wrapping the nakago and see what happens. Dont think the problem is with the mekugis they seem very firmly seated on their holes. Yeah, epoxying will cause further impossibility of dismounting, cleaning, exchanging parts, customizing, so there are plenty disadvantages in epoxying. Im reconsidering that idea as a plan c. Will try the shimmimg, wrapping nakago hypothesis. Also check for a seppa replacement with that on my ronin katana dojo pro and see what goes on. Thanks for your inputs, bro. All the best, Zanbatou I just noted something similar on my Huawei Kogarasu; but the sound is so low that i really cant say if i HEAR or FEEL the "issue"... strange. Doesnt happen even every time i pick it up / swing it. I suspect it comes from the fuchi being very thin iron; may be it has too much space so it produces a "Knackfrosch" effect... Attachments:
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Post by Zanbatou on Jul 11, 2019 0:35:24 GMT
Yep, Darth Paunch,
It is strange, sort of synesthetic issue, one feels other hears, but definitely there is something there around the fuchi area. Now you...see...what I mean.
Best.
Zanbatou
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Post by Darth Paunch on Jul 11, 2019 16:43:04 GMT
Yep, Darth Paunch, It is strange, sort of synesthetic issue, one feels other hears, but definitely there is something there around the fuchi area. Now you...see...what I mean. Best. Zanbatou Mmmph, wouldnt worry too much... i have also a VA Bristol and an Albion Bastard which produce that sound/feeling...
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