|
Post by SolarSailor on Mar 12, 2019 12:04:09 GMT
Hello everyone. I'm new to the world of sword collecting (haven't even gotten a sword yet) so forgive me if this is a silly question. I've tried looking up the answer to this question and have yet to come up with anything. Now I understand that all swords (with the exception of training, synthetic, and sparing swords) are more or less designed to kill and that they are extremely dangerous if not properly used. However I was wondering if there are sword type's that are more likely than others to cause accidental self injury while test cutting.
I've heard the expression "double-edged sword" before, meaning something that can help or harm you. Is there any truth behind this expression? Are single-edged swords actually "safer" to use? What about short swords vs long two handed swords? Are swords designed primarily for thrusting (such as rapier or small sword) less likely to cut you if you swing the wrong way, or do you only increase the chances of accidentally stabbing yourself? Or is there really no functional difference in sword safety and all blades are equally dangerous.
I don't plan on doing any test cutting until I try a HEMA class or learn to use a practice sword, but I wanted to get a more experienced opinion on this. What would you consider the sword most and least likely to cause accidental injury? Is there even is one?
|
|
|
Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 12, 2019 12:34:15 GMT
The urumi (Indian whip-sword) is quite self-dangerous, but that's pretty obvious. A Chinese hook sword is dangerous since it has sharp points on the hilt.
There isn't much safety difference between single-edged and double-edged. I have heard of people cutting themselves with big wind-ups for big swings putting the back edge against their shoulder. You are more likely to have a sharp edge hit you if you drop a double-edged sword on your foot, leave it propped against a chair and accidentally walk into it, etc.
Heavy and long swords are more dangerous when cutting, since it's harder to stop an excessive follow-through.
Rapiers without sharp edges are fairly safe - you're more likely to stab yourself with a short sword.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Mar 12, 2019 13:15:31 GMT
What you ask is difficult to answer as swords are primary a weapon and any misuse can cause an accident. I feel short swords are potentially more dangerous than longer ones as it is easier to cut one’s self. I have a pair of butterfly swords that looked good when I saw them in use but I leave them packed away as I fear accidently cutting my forearm. I have a 18” pointed machete and got my hand in front of the point and bumped it while working. But a glove would have prevented a trip to the clinic. Most small swords as they lack a cutting edge and more so a rapier without a cutting edge would be relatively safe. A sword classified as “stage combat” would be about the safest, least you drop it on your foot or club someone over the head. That would be followed by “blunt” then “unsharpened”.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Mar 12, 2019 13:30:00 GMT
To add on a little bit, I always interpreted the "double-edge sword" metaphor as alluding to the danger of having your own sword pushed back into you, for instance, by a stronger opponent. Not so much that a sword with two edges is inherently more dangerous than a sword with one edge.
Otherwise, obviously, the fewer sharp edges and pointy bits, the "safer" the sword will be. Some consideration also to flex, especially in thrust-oriented swords. Fencing swords, for example, are basically a springy rod with a big nub one end and a grip on the other. Basically, that is.
I feel like most injuries in, say, a dojo setting occur during drawing and/or sheathing the blade. If your hand is in the wrong place or you're not aware of where your blade is...well, a good number of folks have put their hands quite far down their blades before noticing. Especially in Japanese arts, where noto is prevalent and watching yourself do it is frowned upon. Likewise, some have sliced their hands open by having it too high on the scabbard while drawing, or in rare cases, the blade cut through the scabbard due to a wrong angle.
Apart from those, over-swing is the top injury cause. Big wind-ups + poor control = field self-amputation. Okay, usually just a few stitches, but it can go very badly, very easily.
Thus, a lightweight sword with a more neutral balance (closer to the hand) is probably "safer" if only because it's easier to control. One-handed or two, though, I'm not sure. I feel like most would be more inclined to over-swing with a two-hander, but the second hand also adds greater control and stopping power correctly applied.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Mar 12, 2019 13:35:50 GMT
The urumi (Indian whip-sword) is quite self-dangerous, but that's pretty obvious. A Chinese hook sword is dangerous since it has sharp points on the hilt. There isn't much safety difference between single-edged and double-edged. I have heard of people cutting themselves with big wind-ups for big swings putting the back edge against their shoulder. You are more likely to have a sharp edge hit you if you drop a double-edged sword on your foot, leave it propped against a chair and accidentally walk into it, etc. Heavy and long swords are more dangerous when cutting, since it's harder to stop an excessive follow-through. Rapiers without sharp edges are fairly safe - you're more likely to stab yourself with a short sword. Unless you ram the pointy end of a sharp rapier deep into your thumb clench while frantically polishing it, using a... ah, "wanking" motion... *blush*
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Mar 12, 2019 13:54:12 GMT
Also look for the term “training” or “practical”. If your interest is katana look go for an “iaito”.
|
|
|
Post by Vincent Dolan on Mar 12, 2019 14:44:09 GMT
To add on a little bit, I always interpreted the "double-edge sword" metaphor as alluding to the danger of having your own sword pushed back into you, for instance, by a stronger opponent. Not so much that a sword with two edges is inherently more dangerous than a sword with one edge. That was always my interpretation of the phrase, as well, especially when you look at how Hollywood portrays sword fights: slash, slash, clang, let's push our swords towards one another so we can monologue for twenty seconds.
I also feel like over-swing is probably a major contributor to self-injury with a sword; I'd say that a one-handed, double-edged sword would probably be the most likely culprit, as I've found, in my (very limited) experience, that a full swing with a one-handed sword tends to end with the sword's momentum turning the wrist so that the blade kinda pops back towards the wielder. With a single-edged sword, this isn't much of an issue, but with a double-edged sword, well, that second edge is pointing right at you...
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Mar 12, 2019 14:53:28 GMT
To those recommending blunts: I think we're looking for sharps, for cutting, but "safe" ones, to reduce the risk of accidental injury.
Though, personally, I say if you're worried about accidentally hurting yourself with something sharp...don't use anything sharp until you're more confident you won't accidentally hurt yourself. Blunts are good for practice there.
|
|
|
Post by Sir Thorfinn on Mar 12, 2019 20:25:34 GMT
ANd if you want to know a million ways for it to go badly, check out youtube for instances of folks hurting themselves or doing dumb stuff.
|
|
|
Post by quesderho on Mar 12, 2019 21:10:57 GMT
|
|
|
Post by quesderho on Mar 12, 2019 21:13:25 GMT
Also look for the term “training” or “practical”. If your interest is katana look go for an “iaito”. pgandy, I think practical often means "battle ready, not having too much decoration, and thus cheaper" , such as Hanwei Practical Niuweidao or sino Practical Niuweidao www.sinosword.com/practical-niuwei-dao.html
|
|
|
Post by krand on Mar 12, 2019 22:14:23 GMT
A two handed sword, like a katana or Longsword is much safer when cutting, provided you keep both hands on it. It’s actually pretty difficult to hit yourself with two hands on the grip. Plus it’s less likely to go flying due to a loose grip too. I’d suggest the book Cutting with the Medieval Sword: Theory and Application by Michael Edelson if you want to learn proper mechanics.
|
|
|
Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 12, 2019 22:19:14 GMT
Smallswords have no edge, only a point. Unless you somehow manage to thrust yourself, they are very safe to handle without experience. A british 1796 spadroon isnt terribly dangerous to the opponent, so the user should be super safe
|
|
|
Post by zabazagobo on Mar 12, 2019 22:40:45 GMT
I'd say, generally, single edged swords are safer to the user. One of the things I love about katana is the thick, blunt spine; perfect for grabbing or pushing for added momentum at close range. No worries about nicking yourself with the short/back edge.
Jian make me more nervous than most swords. Very lightweight, very quick, very sharp, double edged, minimal guard...it's potentially a very bad day if you don't know how to maneuvre one properly. I feel much more comfortable with rapier or sidesword because the weight and balance makes it more difficult for the weapon to accelerate as easily as a jian can.
The point about two handed swords is also solid, if both hands are in use, it can be argued you have more control and less risk of rotation/recoil back towards the body/off hand.
Now if I wanted to be a smart alec, I'd say small swords since they can't cut anyway.
|
|
|
Post by randomnobody on Mar 12, 2019 22:45:58 GMT
Also look for the term “training” or “practical”. If your interest is katana look go for an “iaito”. pgandy, I think practical often means "battle ready, not having too much decoration, and thus cheaper" , such as Hanwei Practical Niuweidao or sino Practical Niuweidao www.sinosword.com/practical-niuwei-dao.htmlI think pgandy was referring, in this case, to Hanwei's "practical" European line. Their "practical Viking sword," for instance, is an inexpensive blunt intended for training that involves a bit of sparring, rather than any cutting exercise.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Mar 13, 2019 2:14:42 GMT
Also look for the term “training” or “practical”. If your interest is katana look go for an “iaito”. pgandy, I think practical often means "battle ready, not having too much decoration, and thus cheaper" , such as Hanwei Practical Niuweidao or sino Practical Niuweidao www.sinosword.com/practical-niuwei-dao.htmlWhen I said that I was mainly thinking of Hanwei, offering blunted sword and tip on their rapiers, they are also listed as stage combat.
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 13, 2019 2:59:09 GMT
OP, I think you are overthinking a little bit. Just pick whatever interests you the most, learn how to safely use it, and you will not hurt yourself. Just make sure what you get is not too heavy and does not have a slick or tubular grip that could come out of your hand when you swing it. A member here hurt his leg quite badly when the grip of a Cold Steel "1917" cutlass came out of his grip, due to proabably the grip being a poorly thought out, too thick, and too slick.
I have not seriously hurt myself with a sword. Just cuts and nicks when I was being careless.
|
|
|
Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 13, 2019 3:02:13 GMT
The phrase "double edged sword" I have always interpreted as just referring to the sword having an edge that can be used for cutting towards your enemy, and towards yourself. So something that can easily backfire. I did some HEMA longsword and I never had the false edge hit me by accident.
|
|
|
Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 13, 2019 3:12:37 GMT
OP, I think you are overthinking a little bit. Just pick whatever interests you the most, learn how to safely use it, and you will not hurt yourself. Just make sure what you get is not too heavy and does not have a slick or tubular grip that could come out of your hand when you swing it. A member here hurt his leg quite badly when the grip of a Cold Steel "1917" cutlass came out of his grip, due to proabably the grip being a poorly thought out, too thick, and too slick. I have not seriously hurt myself with a sword. Just cuts and nicks when I was being careless. This. Just learn to be careful and start slow. Its like driving a car. Its super dangerous if you just hop behind the wheel and speed off with no experience, but if you start slow and pace yourself it can be safe....well, not really safe, its always dangerous object, just one who you learn to respect.
|
|
stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
|
Post by stormmaster on Mar 13, 2019 4:14:05 GMT
Aye as many have said there is really no such thing, as long as u remember a sword is ultimately a weapon and you treat it as such u will at most nick your finger when your oiling the blade or something
|
|