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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 24, 2019 7:54:26 GMT
You may find the sail guard dagger and buckler in the same hand being quite heavy though.
I honestly prefer the sail guard dagger over a buckler at this point in my fencing career. The added capability of a great offensive tool to dissuade rushes is a wonderful boon. It also does not block any vision, something I previously rarely considered.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 24, 2019 8:01:47 GMT
You may find the sail guard dagger and buckler in the same hand being quite heavy though. I honestly prefer the sail guard dagger over a buckler at this point in my fencing career. The added capability of a great offensive tool to dissuade rushes is a wonderful boon. It also does not block any vision, something I previously rarely considered. Well I already bought a buckler haha. And I tend to try hold on to stuff Any Buckler and dagger videos every interest you?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 24, 2019 8:05:12 GMT
You may find the sail guard dagger and buckler in the same hand being quite heavy though. I honestly prefer the sail guard dagger over a buckler at this point in my fencing career. The added capability of a great offensive tool to dissuade rushes is a wonderful boon. It also does not block any vision, something I previously rarely considered. Well I already bought a buckler haha. And I tend to try hold on to stuff Any Buckler and dagger videos every interest you? By no means give up the buckler, it's a great tool for an arsenal. A imagine a dagger held in the same hand will act fairly similar with some minor differences in handling to a sail guard dagger. I haven't seen too many videos on the subject, but do find the cateran society videos to be well put together. To be honest though, after learning military sabre I just use everything single handed and cut and thrust according to those manuals with slight grip adjustments. Works pretty well
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 24, 2019 8:09:08 GMT
Well I already bought a buckler haha. And I tend to try hold on to stuff Any Buckler and dagger videos every interest you? By no means give up the buckler, it's a great tool for an arsenal. A imagine a dagger held in the same hand will act fairly similar with some minor differences in handling to a sail guard dagger. I haven't seen too many videos on the subject, but do find the cateran society videos to be well put together. To be honest though, after learning military sabre I just use everything single handed and cut and thrust according to those manuals with slight grip adjustments. Works pretty well Don't blame ya. I often wonder if I'm complicating stuff for nothing by going anywhere near past sabre training
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Post by howler on Feb 24, 2019 8:33:47 GMT
What about that dagger and a buckler in the off hand Like both in the same hand? The guard on the dagger with the quillons acts almost like a buckler but much more offensive. You could probably hold both at the same time fairly effectively, but you might want to make both grips thinner for a better grip on them. Dagger in the primary hand, and buckler in the off hand would be an interesting combo. Lacking in range, but closing and being very aggressive would work well, however you will need to train for that mindset. My preferred combo is large knife or dagger in the off hand and sabre in the primary. I like my rapier and am most skilled at that form of fencing but the sabre is still my preferred sword for aggression. Maybe rapier and dagger for single adversary and sabre/dagger for multiple melee.
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Post by MOK on Feb 24, 2019 12:55:05 GMT
Use a short spear for the buckler handle, like the Indian madu or some similar African bucklers.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Feb 24, 2019 17:21:55 GMT
Buckler and dagger without a primary longer weapon doesn't make sense historically. If you carried a buckler, you carried a longer edged weapon like a Messer or an arming sword. The dagger you carried anyway so if it came to fighting, you would use sword and buckler with the dagger either in the off hand with the buckler (as shown in Talhoffer) or, more likely, the dagger only if the primary weapon was lost. Nobody would pick buckler and dagger as a first choice combination.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 24, 2019 17:27:10 GMT
I had previously tried buckler and dagger in the off hand and rejected the idea. With this thread and a spear introduced I revisited the concept and still rejected it, but not the concept.
Your buckler has the same grip as mine, having a round steel cross section. My knives have an oval cross section. This makes for a small unstable contact area. Someone with larger hands than my size 8 would have less problem, but a problem nevertheless. I am afraid that an opponent’s blade could rip my dagger from my hand by hitting my blade. Just to give point would be taxing. I think your idea as such will not work. Also I find holding the buckler and dagger in the same hand slows down my buckler. It is faster and more agile if used alone.
If you craft a handle that mated with your dagger of wood or another material that wouldn’t be as slippery as steel would be better. But the making of such would not be practical.
You could copy the targe in Lindybeige’s video with the off centre grip. Here the targe was controlled by the arm leaving the hand free for the dagger.
Or, make a spike for your buckler. This would not be historically incorrect. KoA is offering targes with this idea and the idea probably came from the buckler/spike idea of old.
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Post by MOK on Feb 24, 2019 18:38:41 GMT
A lot of bucklers also had/have flat handles (essentially a shaped steel plate). Much more comfortable to hold something else in the same hand with those.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 25, 2019 8:44:39 GMT
Also, the buckler used in India and Georgia have straps you hold onto instead of a handle. This would seem to be optimal for holding a dagger in the hand as well.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 25, 2019 12:11:51 GMT
I took a look into gladiatoria because it's a manuscript with many dagger and buckler pictures, but not as a combo. It made me think that if you're in reach of a dagger it's better to have a hand free to grab the other arm than to deflect an dagfer attack with a buckler.
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 27, 2019 0:58:15 GMT
Cause my Buckler is hella uncomfortable to grip a dagger in Most bucklers out there these days kinda suck. But with the good custom ones it's easy to grab a sword blade or dagger handle with your left hand
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 2, 2019 20:16:41 GMT
Thanks for the responses guys. If this handle ever breaks I'm gonna look forward to customizing it. A nice wooden handle that extends to the ends of the Buckler. By removing rivets I already got the holes drilled for me in the steel
I been practicing sword and buckler with a bayonet and buckler just because I have no space for full sized weapons practice yet. Been doing a lot of solo drills to practice coordination and stamina.
During this time it felt like it has potential as a combination set to do sword and buckler moves in an enclosed space (even Danu wouldn't do in my tiny hallway unless I stuck to thrusts). I can see this combination being pretty good against a machete, bat, knife, and other types of weapons a modern home invader would use.
I promise I won't get too disagreeable if anyone disagrees with this.
By enclosed space I keen narrow hallways in a small place. If you have a giant house then by all means use a cutlass. I would too if I had one
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 2, 2019 21:27:24 GMT
I know what you mean with small spaces and is largely why I like 2’ blades or shorter. I did get a couple of sabres toward the end of last year and it’s safe to say that I am not a sabre man. I have enough space to cut with them outside but they don’t feel natural to me. And inside forget it. They look nice in the rack though. If I ever have combat it will be in the house. Outside gives me two issues. To explain why I was off my property, if that’s the case. Or outside on my property my flank is not secure. I could be attacked from more than one side and am more exposed. Inside is where it will happen. A hallway is ideal for me as my flank is secure and the attackers will be attacking in a column where the lead man is blocking the others, giving me a one on one situation. And when the authorities start with their questions it will be more believable to explain in my house protecting whatever than outside.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 2, 2019 22:33:45 GMT
I know what you mean with small spaces and is largely why I like 2’ blades or shorter. I did get a couple of sabres toward the end of last year and it’s safe to say that I am not a sabre man. I have enough space to cut with them outside but they don’t feel natural to me. And inside forget it. They look nice in the rack though. If I ever have combat it will be in the house. Outside gives me two issues. To explain why I was off my property, if that’s the case. Or outside on my property my flank is not secure. I could be attacked from more than one side and am more exposed. Inside is where it will happen. A hallway is ideal for me as my flank is secure and the attackers will be attacking in a column where the lead man is blocking the others, giving me a one on one situation. And when the authorities start with their questions it will be more believable to explain in my house protecting whatever than outside. Using the small spaces inside a house is what a lot of my planned tactics rely on. Them walls are gonna be 100% necessary if the attacker has a gun. It's also really hard to swing a bat full force in a small space. A bayonet is good because it's excellent for thrusting, has a thick yet narrow blade, so combined with a buckler it should be sufficient for parrying incoming attacks from machete, bats, crowbars, knives, hatchets and any other crazy implement someone doing a break in might have wirh them. I also have an O-Tanto, which would cut much better, but it lacks a guard. So the cutting, whatever my bayonets can muster, would have to be sufficient and be used to target arteries I've also been planning to make an indoor use spear too. To tape a mini flashlight on it and set so when I turn it on the strobe function is activated, blinding and confusing an incomer, as it strobes and the spear itself thrusts at them at multiple times
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Post by MOK on Mar 2, 2019 23:21:57 GMT
It occurs to me that the combination might be relevant in crowded situations, like a surprise bar brawl - a sword is kinda cumbersome to draw across your body and use with people all around and probably right up in your personal space, but the dagger is right there at your right hand, and using the buckler as a knuckleduster isn't particularly hindered by the cramped conditions. That said, apparently frigging longbows were in fact used in such kerfuffles, so what do I know...
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 2, 2019 23:23:55 GMT
It occurs to me that the combination might be relevant in crowded situations, like a surprise bar brawl - a sword is kinda cumbersome to draw across your body and use with people all around and probably right up in your personal space, but the dagger is right there at your right hand, and using the buckler as a knuckleduster isn't particularly hindered by the cramped conditions. That said, apparently frigging longbows were in fact used in such kerfuffles, so what do I know... Long bows? In bars? Imagine the recotche from a missed shot in a bar lol. But true, on the point of being unable to draw a longer sword. Even doing that indoors could risk the odd thump or bang against the wall, revealing your location
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Post by MOK on Mar 2, 2019 23:38:14 GMT
At the point where you're actually laying about with lethal weapons, I'm pretty sure your location is already common knowledge unless you're a real life Naruto-style ninja wizard.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 2, 2019 23:45:23 GMT
At the point where you're actually laying about with lethal weapons, I'm pretty sure your location is already common knowledge unless you're a real life Naruto-style ninja wizard. I like to keep some at an "easy access" level. Although, by location, I mean like what wall you are using for cover and such. Or if you moved to another one. I would prefer moving around in that kind of situation rather than remaining still
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Post by markus313 on Mar 4, 2019 21:10:12 GMT
My concept(s) of "buckler and dagger"...
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