Zen_Hydra
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Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Feb 22, 2019 17:51:15 GMT
Is there some transient, ephemeral quality of swords which speak to humans at a less-than-conscious level?
Perhaps our (humanity's) widespread fascination with swords can be explained completely by cultural indoctrination, but are we sure that is the only reason so many people across time and distance have found the sword to be of special, iconic significance?
Is there something special about these over-large knives (swords) which speaks to our species on a deeper level than spears, bows, maces, and axes?
Is it just the social implications of sword ownership, or perhaps the implications of owning a weapon consisting of so much sharpened metal?
It can't be solely about the attractiveness of a sword's form, because there are so many shapes and sizes of sword. However, accepting that there is so much variety, even the uneducated can usually discern what is, or isn't a sword with little effort.
I'm curious about what the psychological draw is to swords. Many people who have no interest in ever possessing a sword still find them to be interesting and alluring.
I've personal, anecdotal evidence over multiple occasions that when exposed to a variety of weapons, young children were almost instantly fascinated with swords (over other weapons like spears, polearms, axes, and maces) without any prior exposure to these things.
What are your thoughts?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 22, 2019 17:57:08 GMT
I know the reasons but you probably won't believe. So better not disclose in public.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 22, 2019 18:11:49 GMT
A sword makes you feel mightier.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Feb 22, 2019 18:12:12 GMT
I know the reasons but you probably won't believe. So better not disclose in public. Please feel free to send me a direct message. I'm curious about your thoughts are.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Feb 22, 2019 18:15:44 GMT
A sword makes you feel mightier. Why do you think a sword imparts more of a feeling of strength than an axe, or a bludgeon? What property of a sword intrinsically speaks to personal empowerment in a more effective manner than another weapon?
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Feb 22, 2019 18:21:16 GMT
message sent.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 22, 2019 18:25:36 GMT
Good question which I'm also thinking about. The answer for yourself might be found in that, what you consider the best/ideal sword for yourself. But why not feel much mightier with the thumb over the nuke button? Perhaps the sword is the thing which we can accept best with our ape brain because it's still a "better and more versatile arm" (I mean the human body part, but hey, "arm"?).
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,085
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Post by LeMal on Feb 22, 2019 18:48:53 GMT
In total? Multiple reasons.
The single greatest though? Well, by analogy, why the allure of horses, but not camels (or oxen-pulled carts)?
Lingering overtones of a tradition of warrior aristocracy. And yes, that persisted long into when swords were commonly produced and carried by soldiers, or even commoners.
From the start, spears (no matter how much more the common, effective weapon of war) could be made widely and carried by anyone. They were what the massed warriors conscripted under a lord's thrall used in battle. Impact weapons--especially mere clubs--could be made anywhere, and used by anyone.
And seriously, how many "enchanted" spears or clubs do we know of from myth (Gungnir notwithstanding)?
Now, how many SWORDS?
Initially only the "aristocratic" warriors carried swords. Then, when they became more common, all it meant was far more common warriors and even commoners could indulge a subtext of wannabe-aristocracy. Swords in the late middle ages and Renaissance became to hand weapons and warrior ideals in general what suburban McMansions have become to general housing, or what mass-produced "designer" tag clothing are in fashion. Because once common soldiers and/or commoners have access to the trappings of aristocracy, there's usually a lot less attitude of staying proud that "they're no better than us"--and a lot more "see--we're really one of them."
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 22, 2019 18:50:45 GMT
I always felt the sword was a weapon made by the ruling class to both protect and oppress the lower classes. When fighting wars or enemies, the sword is a poor weapon. It doesn't do well against armour or even other weapons. What does a sword do well against? Flesh. Unarmoured flesh.
I don't buy into the love of the higher class like most do, seeing them as protectors and heroes when they are often tyrants and oppressive. To me, the sword isn't a weapon to protect, for heroes to wield. That would be either a spear, or better yet, a warhammer. How else does one take down a corrupt knight or a knight of an invading force? To the same crew who feels they need guns to protect themselves against a corrupt government, I feel a warhammer is a more appropriate symbol than a sword.
Who wore swords? Typically the ruling class, at first. Eventually citizens did, but it always seemed to be a different version of what the ruling class did, like longswords vs sword and Buckler.
While it was once a symbol of oppression and the ruling class, I think over time it may have evolved into a sign of personal liberty and prosperity for the lower classes, as at one time they could not afford a sword as easily, and from what I think I heard a few times, there were restrictions on carrying them too.
I probably sound like an idiot spouting nonsense, but from what I can tell, the days of knights and kings was one hellish time to live as a peasant. The sword was a weapon owned by the higher class and a symbol of their power. I learned a lot about how castle systems were invented to multiply fortifying power and defense, giving a huge edge to those within it. And one of the things those in power had to worry about was an uprising of human livestock. To protect yet control. The job any farmer is familiar with, and that any cow would rather have, I am sure
It's only a thought though. A conclusion I reached while learning more about medieval politics and life styles
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 22, 2019 19:04:22 GMT
I don't think children have this sociological hidden agenda when playing with swords.
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 22, 2019 19:06:57 GMT
I don't think children have this sociological hidden agenda when playing with swords. Maybe it's just habitual at this point in human nature. We have hundreds of years of DNA of people using and viewing swords in the mannar that was relivant at the time
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Feb 22, 2019 19:14:36 GMT
I think we're primed by media to feel "Honor, glory, adventure!" Ringing through our minds when we touch a sword. I know that for me, I started really being interested in swords after playing the Ocarina of Time.
They're shiny, too.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 22, 2019 19:16:31 GMT
I'd rather believe in 3 mio. years of "I can hit the other ape with my stick out of reach of his arms!".
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 22, 2019 19:21:59 GMT
I think we're primed by media to feel "Honor, glory, adventure!" Ringing through our minds when we touch a sword. I know that for me, I started really being interested in swords after playing the Ocarina of Time. They're shiny, too. Same lol. I agree entirely.
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Post by howler on Feb 22, 2019 19:44:06 GMT
A sword makes you feel mightier. A sword makes you mightier, which feels good, like Drinking beer. Gulp drink.
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Post by howler on Feb 22, 2019 20:04:35 GMT
Is there some transient, ephemeral quality of swords which speak to humans at a less-than-conscious level? Perhaps our (humanity's) widespread fascination with swords can be explained completely by cultural indoctrination, but are we sure that is the only reason so many people across time and distance have found the sword to be of special, iconic significance? Is there something special about these over-large knives (swords) which speaks to our species on a deeper level than spears, bows, maces, and axes? Is it just the social implications of sword ownership, or perhaps the implications of owning a weapon consisting of so much sharpened metal? It can't be solely about the attractiveness of a sword's form, because there are so many shapes and sizes of sword. However, accepting that there is so much variety, even the uneducated can usually discern what is, or isn't a sword with little effort. I'm curious about what the psychological draw is to swords. Many people who have no interest in ever possessing a sword still find them to be interesting and alluring. I've personal, anecdotal evidence over multiple occasions that when exposed to a variety of weapons, young children were almost instantly fascinated with swords (over other weapons like spears, polearms, axes, and maces) without any prior exposure to these things. What are your thoughts? Generally, swords were more cost prohibitive than axe, spear, polearm due to difficulty creating, so you may also embellish with fine engravings, etchings, costly materials in handles & scabbards, etc... There are axes, spears and such that were also given the equivalent "bling" effect, and a person (like you or I) would probably similarly geek out to them as well. I believe there are other reasons the sword crept into human psychology, through language, culture, religion, and the fact that it is an easier carrying sidearm also plays a role.
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Post by MOK on Feb 22, 2019 20:27:50 GMT
They're romantic. Like motorcycles, muscle cars, six-shooters and leather jackets.
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pgandy
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Senior Forumite
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Post by pgandy on Feb 22, 2019 20:36:52 GMT
I really don’t know how to explain it for me. As close as I can come is that I get an inner feeling, an attachment if you will, to the thing. This appears more so with a katana but on some other swords especially after having worked on them to some degree such as sharpening. In other cases just holding the thing in time will seem like part of me, not a tool, not a weapon, although I recognize it as both. I really don’t know how to put it in words. They don’t give me any sense of power though I feel more secure with one than without. A good one will feel like a part of me to put it crudely and while not entirely accurate it’s the best that I can do.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Feb 22, 2019 20:43:55 GMT
Romantic, hmhm, swords make you feel more powerful like the ... (mentioned stuff) and that makes you believe the female apes prefer your DNA for reproduction matters. Sometimes it works.
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Post by markus313 on Feb 22, 2019 20:45:19 GMT
Even more so than a good stick, swords are an icon of self-assertion, rooted on a psychological and socio-economic level.
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