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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 14, 2019 22:56:23 GMT
As opposed to firearms, that is. I've been doing a bit of research into the French cavalry of the Napoleonic wars, and I came across two sites that said the cuirassiers preferred their swords to pistols or carbines:
"Cuirassiers from most countries were armed with a heavy straight bladed sword designed for cutting and being held straight armed during a charge like a spear, this was their primary weapon and they normally resisted attempts to arm them with carbines or any other type of fire arm apart from pistols (which French Cuirassiers carried until 1812). Like many of the Napoleonic cavalry these heavy armoured troops saw themselves as knights of the battlefield and looked down on firearms as weapons of the infantry preferring to use their swords in combat."
And also this one, which makes the claim that only 20% actually carried pistols:
"When it came to hardware the cuirassiers were riding arsenals: body armor, helmets, pistols and long straigh sabers. When in 1812 they received carbines they made considerable effort to avoid carrying them. However, according to regimental inspections only 20 % had pistols. Rousselot moted that most contemporary illustrations shows the cuirassiers without cartridge box and carbine belt. He wrote that inspections reports conducted in 1805 showed that the 3rd, 4th, 7th and 8th Cuirassier Regiment lacked cartridge boxes and belts. The troopers caried few rounds of ammunition in their pockets. Inspections in 1807 again showed lacks of the same items in 4th, 6th, 7th and 8th Cuirassier Regiment. They kept ammunition in their pockets."
That's quite the claim, that 80% of cuirassiers were going into battle armed with nothing but a saber. I notice neither of these sites provides a primary source, so I was wondering if anyone here on SBG could confirm or deny the truth of these statements. Google has yielded no results.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 15, 2019 17:12:09 GMT
The psychology has more to do the tactical character of the armored cavalry. The Cuirassiers were not used to skirmish; that was the domain of the light Cav and dragoons. The Cuiraissiers were shock troops, attacking in tight, boot to boot onslaughts intended to shatter lines.
The mission obviated the value of muzzle loaded missile weapons.
Napoleonic body armor wasn't space science: the stuff was heavy, clumsy, and on a bright, sunny summers day it was agony to cook in. The helmet was top heavy and the horse hair tail was a pain in the ass, that got in you face. It was all worth while when you knew that unfortunate infantry trying to hold their ground were shitting themselves at the sight of of a couple of thousand "heavies" were bearing down on them.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 15, 2019 17:26:07 GMT
That is a question for Jean Bick over at SFI I think. Or Dave Kelly here. For what it's worth because anecdotal: I get to see lots and lots of original prints, news papers, engravings, propaganda, all kinds of printed stuff from the 18th C. and the early 19th C. right up to WWII. I have never seen a depiction of Cuirassiers, Napoleonic or otherwise, with a gun or pistol, webbing, pouches, etc. Never. Ever. Funny. Just this morning I found this postcart from about 1870 - 1880 (?)( Dave knows this), with Cuirassiers at the Chow Wagon. French. Depiction as with most of these things quite accurate really and in this case most probably taken from a photograph too. Again no guns, no holsters, pouches, nada. It is good that you asked, because at least I did not ever make a connection with Cuirassiers and guns. I too am quite curious what the facts really are.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 15, 2019 17:51:55 GMT
Dave? The Cuirassiers on the post card? Are they from after the war of 1870? Even 1900's?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2019 18:05:35 GMT
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Post by Dave Kelly on Feb 15, 2019 22:47:47 GMT
Dave? The Cuirassiers on the post card? Are they from after the war of 1870? Even 1900's? Telling the diff of French Cuirrasiers from 1860 to 1905 is very difficult unless there are weapons in the pic.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 15, 2019 23:35:16 GMT
Dave, Uhlan, edelweiss - thank you. It makes sense now that Dave pointed out the way cuirassiers were used.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 16, 2019 2:01:47 GMT
In “Swordsmen of the British Empire” there is a brief encounter of British cavalry (LC or HC?) with French Cuirassiers and no firearms were mentioned. The Englisher narrating the event seemed to take pride in the way the Brits were able to out manoeuvre the French in their heavy armour which made them sluggish compared the lighter and faster English. I can’t remember the year nor location.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 16, 2019 3:45:58 GMT
In “Swordsmen of the British Empire” there is a brief encounter of British cavalry (LC or HC?) with French Cuirassiers and no firearms were mentioned. The Englisher narrating the event seemed to take pride in the way the Brits were able to out manoeuvre the French in their heavy armour which made them sluggish compared the lighter and faster English. I can’t remember the year nor location. Do you happen to know the page? I have that book (well, one of the many editions of it anyway), so I'd like to read it. Come to think of it, I should just read the whole thing, darn it. Lol
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Feb 16, 2019 9:15:22 GMT
In “Swordsmen of the British Empire” there is a brief encounter of British cavalry (LC or HC?) with French Cuirassiers and no firearms were mentioned. The Englisher narrating the event seemed to take pride in the way the Brits were able to out manoeuvre the French in their heavy armour which made them sluggish compared the lighter and faster English. I can’t remember the year nor location. Do you happen to know the page? I have that book (well, one of the many editions of it anyway), so I'd like to read it. Come to think of it, I should just read the whole thing, darn it. Lol Oh man, there are 630 pages counting illustrations. Sorry. There are many things that I’d like to go back and read. I do plan to read the book again in its entirety but so far it has remained only in the planning stage. As well as I remember it is in the last half of the book and was rather brief compared to other events. Thinking on it, there maybe two such events, but both brief and within a few pages of each other.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 17, 2019 4:31:15 GMT
Do you happen to know the page? I have that book (well, one of the many editions of it anyway), so I'd like to read it. Come to think of it, I should just read the whole thing, darn it. Lol Oh man, there are 630 pages counting illustrations. Sorry. There are many things that I’d like to go back and read. I do plan to read the book again in its entirety but so far it has remained only in the planning stage. As well as I remember it is in the last half of the book and was rather brief compared to other events. Thinking on it, there maybe two such events, but both brief and within a few pages of each other. Alright, thanks anyway. I'll just have to read the whole thing after all.
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Post by nordmann on Mar 15, 2019 16:29:07 GMT
No cavalry during the napoleonic period relied on firearms during battle. There are a few select incidence of cavalry using firearms in battle during this period.
At Eylau in 1807 a French chassuer a chaval colonel decided to try and stop a Russian cavalry(dragoons I think)charge with the regiments carbines. It worked mostly because of the heavy snow.
And at Waterloo all the French cavalry resorted to using firearms in a desperate attempt to break the Anglo-allied squares. Riding up and taking pot shots with their pistols and carbines.
The Russians actually removed many of the long guns from their cavalry after 1809. Neither hussars or cuirasises had carbines. I don't remember if the dragoons lost then too.
But over all most napoleonic cavalry had a brace of pistols and a carbine or dragoon musket.
As I said the carbine would almost never be used in battle, but the pistols would be used freely in a melee, as there is no honor in war, and if the only way to win is to draw the pistol, then they would do that.
The light cavalry and some versions of dragoons would use their long guns on the campaign trail, often when meeting their enemy equivalent. At times they would fire of their carbines from the horse often to chase away the enemy. If they met more opposition. They could dismount and act as skirmishes.
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