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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 1:46:25 GMT
Hello everybody. As some of you may have already seen in another post, I was hoping to get some input as to whether the Albion Oakeshott I received was typical for Albion's fit and finish. I've owned a Hersir before and the only issue I found with that was a slight wire edge on one side. Otherwise it was flawless. Perhaps because of its simplicity, it didn't have things like what I'm going to post picture of here. I'm not sure if I'm being nit picky, or if I should expect more from a $1200 sword, so I'm requesting some input from people who have owned more Albion's than I. Unfortunately, the following images actually make the issues I'm pointing out *less* obvious than they are to the naked eye. Here are the pictures of what I'm unsure about. Blade WidthIn the first image it may be difficult to tell what I'm referring to, but the blade appears slightly offset of the grip. The reason for that isn't that it's offset from the hilt itself, but rather that the left side of the blade is about 2mm wider from the fuller to the edge than the right side. The width is still the advertised distance by Albion, but one side of the blade is wider than the other going out from the fuller. PommelThe second image is probably more obvious. This grind looks more like what I've noticed from some of my Windlass blades than what I was expecting from Albion. One of my Windlass pommels is actually better. FullerThis third picture is of the fuller termination. In the image it moves off to the right as it terminates, instead of staying centered in the blade. The spines created by the hollow grind also diverge in width at this point. Again, the left is wider than the right. It's the same on the reverse side. Other issues hard to capture on camera are the grind marks on the edge and the kind of "secondary bevel" on the edge, which may not be secondary bevel at all but just the natural shape you get when sharpening a hollow ground blade. So anyways, these don't impact the functionality of this sword (except for perhaps the two sides of the blade being different widths.. definitely gives one side less sharpening life), but I'm just not sure if this falls under the somewhat legendary fit and finish of Albion or not. In my sample size of 2, it's definitely not as nice as their Hersir, but their Oakeshott is definitely a more complicated piece. The blade rings like a bell and it feels great in hand, but I'm curious what other people think of the finish. Thanks for taking a look and hopefully this is helpful to anyone else looking at getting this particular piece from Albion.
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 12, 2019 2:05:01 GMT
I personally think you should expect a hand finished object to have small signs of human characteristics on them, even tho the blades are cnc milled, they are hand finished by some guy on a grinder so there would be alittle deviation from blade to blade, 2 mm is really really small and honestly in the first picture I cant see it, in the pommel tho I do notice that there is some differences from both sides of the pommel in thickness. I think all of these are cosmetic in nature and wont affect the usage of the blade. We are a bit too spoiled by albion swords for me personally, as they are almost too perfect and not a accurate representation of historical swords. Swords back then even the most highest end ones had small cosmetic imperfections because they were all forged by hand and people are just not as precise as machines which create the blanks and stuff that albions start out as and the human nature of it gives swords character imo
If u are really bothered by the imperfections which I think you are I urge you to just contact Albion to ask them to fix it which im almost certain they will try, note tho that it might just come back with the same flaws but never hurts to ask as it is a high end piece and you feel your expectations were not met
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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 2:41:28 GMT
Hey if my expectations were unrealistic that's totally fine. I dont mind adjusting them. I get what you're saying about historical pieces as well. I'm just trying to get a feel for if this is typical for Albions fit and finish.
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 12, 2019 2:46:31 GMT
Hey if my expectations were unrealistic that's totally fine. I dont mind adjusting them. I get what you're saying about historical pieces as well. I'm just trying to get a feel for if this is typical for Albions fit and finish. Its fine to have high expectations, Albion is pretty famous nowadays for like near perfect fittings and blades but imo Albion been slowly getting worst since alot of their old staff has left and gone on to other things and they had been training new staff. This might be why there have been more threads about small cosmetic issues with albions recently. I would still temper expectations since all swords will have slight imperfections and Albion is no exception but I also get how you feel about the minor cosmetic issues since the general thought about albion is like flawless swords and thats what you expected, I would just ask them to try to fix at least the larger cosmetic flaws, you might be wasting shipping costs and end up with the same sword but it never hurts to ask politely
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Post by leviathansteak on Feb 12, 2019 3:19:09 GMT
Hmm. The flaws you pointed out are pretty obvious. In terms of albion level fit and finish, this sword has definitely fallen short. My 2 albions aren't nearly that bad. In terms of what to expect from a historical object, these flaws would be common on actual medieval swords and don't affect the function. So if you're ok with that then it's fine. Have a look at this thread on myarmoury showing the various flaws on actual antiques that most modern collectors would return immediately if found on a modern reproduction myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=37310
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 3:26:25 GMT
The first picture shows a measurable difference. The other images as well show the issues clearly. The pommel and fuller I might grow accustomed to but the blade definitely looks wonky to me. What is weird is that the guard seems to fit the blade but I wouldn't accept what I see, for the money. I have too many antiques that show uniform forging and grinding to not expect the best from Albion.
If it were mine, I would ask for either a serious rebate or send it back at their cost and request a refund. In my opinion, it is not easily fixed.
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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 3:26:28 GMT
Yeah I had read that thread after finding it posted here. Cool read.
Okay that's what I was thinking. This finish doesn't seem to match with the quality I've seen online and with the Hersir I had, but I had handled so few in person I wasn't sure if I had a good handle on their typical finish quality or not.
Other people feel free to continue leaving your thoughts though.
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 12, 2019 3:31:36 GMT
at the end of the day dude, i feel these flaws are really bothering u as it is and they will just slowly eat away at your love for this sword until you sell it or something. Best to just ask albion if they can fix it now and if they say they can then then perfect or if they offer a replacement then even better, the sooner you ask them the better
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Post by patrick kelly on Feb 12, 2019 3:46:41 GMT
These flaws are bothersome enough to you that you took the time to take photos and post them here. So please, don't work us with a line about readjusting your expectations. Send these photos to Albion and advise them you aren't happy with the final product, then request a new sword or a refund. It's really that simple.
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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 4:03:18 GMT
These flaws are bothersome enough to you that you took the time to take photos and post them here. So please, don't work us with a line about readjusting your expectations. Send these photos to Albion and advise them you aren't happy with the final product, then request a new sword or a refund. It's really that simple. You're off the mark here, so try and take that into future occasions you try to analyze strangers on the internet. I'm genuinely not sure if this fit and finish is to be expected, so I wanted to get opinions from a place where those with seasoned opinions frequent. If I wanted to vent I'd vent to my wife, but certainly not you.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 4:16:08 GMT
These flaws are bothersome enough to you that you took the time to take photos and post them here. So please, don't work us with a line about readjusting your expectations. Send these photos to Albion and advise them you aren't happy with the final product, then request a new sword or a refund. It's really that simple. You're off the mark here, so try and take that into future occasions you try to analyze strangers on the internet. I'm genuinely not sure if this fit and finish is to be expected, so I wanted to get opinions from a place where those with seasoned opinions frequent. If I wanted to vent I'd vent to my wife, but certainly not you. Not to just jump in here as little dog yapping in derision; Patrick is probably one of the most tenured Albion customer you will find on any board back to twenty years ago. Just about the time I bought a sword from Patrick that he had owned since the 1980s. I am not trying to judge you, as a relative stranger to me but I could give any the most serious reference of experience for Patrick Kelly. In the other thread, I may have seemed curt but at the risk of repeating myself, contacting Albion should be your first course of action. If Patrick sees the sword as unacceptable as I do, you might just have a couple of opinions worth noting. Or not. Why do we bother at all and maybe just laugh up our sleeves. That might seem rude, right? Best Glen Cleeton
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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 4:22:42 GMT
You're off the mark here, so try and take that into future occasions you try to analyze strangers on the internet. I'm genuinely not sure if this fit and finish is to be expected, so I wanted to get opinions from a place where those with seasoned opinions frequent. If I wanted to vent I'd vent to my wife, but certainly not you. Not to just jump in here as little dog yapping in derision; Patrick is probably one of the most tenured Albion customer you will find on any board back to twenty years ago. Just about the time I bought a sword from Patrick that he had owned since the 1980s. I am not trying to judge you, as a relative stranger to me but I could give any the most serious reference of experience for Patrick Kelly. In the other thread, I may have seemed curt but at the risk of repeating myself, contacting Albion should be your first course of action. If Patrick sees the sword as unacceptable as I do, you might just have a couple of opinions worth noting. Or not. Why do we bother at all and maybe just laugh up our sleeves. That might seem rude, right? Best Glen Cleeton That's very good information to have, thank you. The seemingly personal and condescending comment of his seemed out of place as my initial post seems pretty dispassionate as far as I can tell. I'll admit that I was less open to his opinion because of his comment, but knowing of his experience should help take the sting out of whatever salt he decides to throw my way going forward.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 4:34:07 GMT
Hey, curmudgeons unite I wouldn't wax too philosophically about what may be read into replies that are often just honest reaction.
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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 5:01:08 GMT
I just thought his reaction was thick is all. I don't think that's too philosophical
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 12, 2019 5:12:53 GMT
yeah patrick is a prolific collector, honestly its hard for me to say how bad it looks in the pics as i had to look at it a few times to see the problems u noticed, maybe its worst if it was in person but just do what u wanna do dude, everyone has different ideals for what their swords look like and for the price u paid u have that right
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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 5:44:21 GMT
Sure, I hear you there but I wasnt firm on what my opinion was, just curious if my expectations were outside of Albions typical fit and finish. I'll certainly take the course of action I think is most reasonable, but I wanted a few more eyes on it to gauge whether it was or not.
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Post by neuronic on Feb 12, 2019 8:34:47 GMT
That's not what I would expect from an Albion sword, I'd be disappointed and would consider returning it. Albion is renowned to offer a nigh perfect fit and finish (although I'm under the impression that recently they're not quite up there...), that's what I pay a four digit amount of chash for.
I feel Albion is falling behind their reputation a bit and others are catching up. You won't see such flaws from Mateusz Sulowski, who's pricing is pretty similar to Albion's...
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Feb 12, 2019 16:50:39 GMT
This thread made me paranoid that I may have missed flaws in my own Albions. So, I spent some time reexamining them this morning. Luckily, they both seem to be good representations of Albion's positive reputation. I was extra-scrutinizing of the pommel of my Doge because it is such a complex shape, but it's practically perfect. Hopefully, these recent QA/QC lapses aren't a trend. I currently have another in their queue, and at least one more I want to purchase after that one.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 12, 2019 20:48:45 GMT
In the pic, the left side of blade looks wider than the right side. Because it follows the lenght of the blade, I would always notice it. I would email Mike at Albion with pics and see if they will replace the sword or blade or refund. Good luck!
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Post by theophilus736 on Feb 12, 2019 21:16:58 GMT
In the pic, the left side of blade looks wider than the right side. Because it follows the lenght of the blade, I would always notice it. I would email Mike at Albion with pics and see if they will replace the sword or blade or refund. Good luck! This is really my only concern as well. The other things can be fixed and are entirely cosmetic but you sharpen this puppy a few times and that right side will look smaller and smaller. So will the left, but I might have a couple of millimeters of life on this hollow ground blade missing. Thanks for the input people. Enough people are saying this doesnt look typical so I emailed Mike and he got back to me right away and told me to send it in. Excellent customer service so far.
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