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Post by MOK on Feb 5, 2019 22:27:30 GMT
Here are the details from Thomas Walsingham, reporting on a case from around 1344 where a Saracen physician asked the Earl of Warenne for permission to kill a wyrm/serpent from Wales at Brunfeld. He captured it and left, leaving treasure which was nightly looted until the Earl got wind of it. It's under "De Quodam Casu Mirabili" for 1344
The medieval historians loved to put these kind of spooky accounts in their histories.
After all, you can't write "history" without "story".
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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 5, 2019 23:17:46 GMT
Here are the details from Thomas Walsingham, reporting on a case from around 1344 where a Saracen physician asked the Earl of Warenne for permission to kill a wyrm/serpent from Wales at Brunfeld. He captured it and left, leaving treasure which was nightly looted until the Earl got wind of it. It's under "De Quodam Casu Mirabili" for 1344
The medieval historians loved to put these kind of spooky accounts in their histories.
After all, you can't write "history" without "story". I need to read more Medieval era stuff, most of my focus so far has been Norse Sagas. I did read some Gerald of Wales, and it was hugely entertaining. Plenty of good stories indeed!
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Post by babarossa on Jun 14, 2019 6:43:51 GMT
Let's just say that a lack of archeological evidence is not proof. Especially when dealing with leather and wood, as most scabbards were and are.
Plenty of midieval art shows no scabbard at all, especially with large swords. So should we assume that most swords had no scabbard at all?
I am of the mind that.... If your primary weapon was a large sword, you would leave the scabbard in camp or with a subordinate when you went to battle. Therefore, no artistic rendition of back carry. Unlike an archer, who's primary was a bow, and the sword was an afterthought with enough time to deploy if the battle did not go yer way.
My reasoning,
have you ever worn a longsword on your hip? tried sparring while wearing a long scabbard? It is more detrimental to you than you might imagine. Tripping on your own gear is FATALLY relevant
Back carry is an historical fact for large swords. It is documented world wide IF you look. In transit. I believe that it was the norm for large swords, on the March. Mountains, marshes, any level of terrain that is not flat.
But it takes a special kind of fool to think that it was done in (or in preparation for) battle.
So.... Were swords carried on the back? Simple answer, yes. Knowing you were going into battle? No. You would take just the weapon, in yer hands. I am of the opinion that back carry was like slinging a hunting rifle. Hook yer thumb and remove said object from the body, draw the weapon and discard everything else.
We, in modern times, forget that the item(however expensive) means far less than our ability to fight effectively for our LIFE.
Fer Procreate sake. Common sense ya bunch of millennial bastards. The ancients had it, why not you?
If pgandy can deploy a moderate size sword from his back without problem. Having age and a pacemaker against him... Wtf is yer problem?
No offense meant pgandy. Your experience and opinion are a big part of why I am here. Along with many other realist posters!!!
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jun 14, 2019 11:40:21 GMT
In other words... Get off yer high horse and strap on yer steel. You bring yer $1000 scabbard and whatever goes in it, and I will show up with my $200 blade, and common sense. Exactly why the "noble class" is no more... Le sigh....
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 11:59:15 GMT
In other words... edelweiss editing to add, there's nothing wrong with le muse Le sigh.... Le mew Anyone that actually knows me, knows I would rather spend $1000 on a sword without a scabbard and that my form fitted cardboard and duct tape scabbards are somewhat renowned and widely acclaimed amongst us peasant class.
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Post by MOK on Jun 14, 2019 12:35:50 GMT
I do practice wearing the scabbard with all of my swords that have wearable scabbards. It's more awkard than not having the thing on, but far from prohibitively so; with shorter swords and certain less free-hanging types of suspension the encumbrance is honestly minimal (and iaijutsu people don't seem to complain about the saya too much, either). Just like with heavy duty backpacks, the key is to adjust the straps properly so the thing sits snug without constricting your movement or bloodflow.
Otherwise, I think Richard Feynman rather hit the nail square on the head with his remark that "Anyway, I have to argue about flying saucers on the beach with people, you know. And I was interested in this: they keep arguing that it is possible. And that's true. It is possible. They do not appreciate that the problem is not to demonstrate whether it's possible or not but whether it's going on or not."
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 14, 2019 12:48:06 GMT
Le gulp !
... and I always thought the noble class just crossed over to myArmoury!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 13:36:08 GMT
Le gulp ! ... and I always thought the noble class just crossed over to myArmoury! dontcha mean le gülp?
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 14, 2019 13:37:26 GMT
Jüp! ... Pütäin dö märdö, thösse dämette ümleuts!
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Post by MOK on Jun 14, 2019 16:44:07 GMT
Jüp! ... Pütäin dö märdö, thösse dämette ümleuts! Well now you're just speaking Swedish.
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Post by babarossa on Jun 14, 2019 18:13:16 GMT
Hmmm...
It appears that, what started as a reasonable post devolved into a drunken rant.
My apologies to the community. My last 2 posts were entirely out of line. As such I am removing them.
I saw a "scabbard" for back carry that only coverd a foot of blade at the point with two hooks for the cross, in a museum.
In an Arabic account from the crusades, it was done with a rope tied to the sword so that it could be slung over the shoulder or across the back.
Some Asian art shows back carry.
A 12 or 13 century poem (if a 100+ page book can be considered a poem) has a man drawing his sword "from over his shoulder"
I think the realavant question should not be IF swords were carried on the back by some people. The question should be if it was done in battle.
In any case it certainly wasn't common or there would be more evidence.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 14, 2019 18:27:52 GMT
Oui agree!
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 19:29:20 GMT
Hüzzah!
.......hic
gimme another one of them rüm swizzlers
Believe me when I write that the party does extend out to the streets and other rooms within the community.
fwiw, your oils on leather comment in General is spot on
That there is a general topic.
In filmology, perhaps the most graceful use of back carry and implementing a draw and cut is Kojiro Sasaki (Kōji Tsuruta) with "the Clothes Pole" in part II of the Musashi trilogy.
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 19:33:17 GMT
Jüp! ... Pütäin dö märdö, thösse dämette ümleuts! Well now you're just speaking Swedish. It is in knowing a little German (and a tall blonde), I can somewhat follow Scandic languages but the subtitles always help me out.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 14, 2019 19:36:59 GMT
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Post by Deleted on Jun 14, 2019 19:54:12 GMT
What does the känji read¿
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 14, 2019 20:06:12 GMT
"Buke ryû" (bäckcärrëi) ((old noble class way to carry a looong sword))
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Jun 15, 2019 4:50:20 GMT
Dang is this thing still going ? I guess when our mothers told us " stop picking at it or it will never heal " was true.
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jun 15, 2019 16:36:07 GMT
If I were to design a back worn carry system, I think instead of trying to draw/sheath the sword from the back, I would try to figure out a way to quick-release the straps to allow the sword to drop down and swing around into a better position for drawing/sheathing. It would be a compromise between the convenience of carrying the sword in an out of the way position, and being in a suitable position to quickly access the weapon.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Jun 15, 2019 18:15:54 GMT
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