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Post by Siward on Jan 28, 2019 20:39:27 GMT
Was looking at the new Ronin swords which are very tempting and I had to remind myself that I’m saving up for either an A&A or Sulowski sword (by either brother).
This got me thinking, if we say the average Albion/A&A sword is $900 then is it really worth 3 Ronin Katana swords ?
Equally, are 5 Ronin Katana Euro swords worth 1 Sulowski ?
In the end is it less about quality than exclusivity ?
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jan 28, 2019 20:45:36 GMT
Kinda hard to give a concise answer. It's a lot like asking if a luxury car is worth it. A Porche is a really nice car, but is it better than having three different Hondas? It's gonna depend what you're looking for. The difference with what you should get at that high price tier is a flawless fit and finish, the best available materials, and superior handling. A lower price tier sword like a Ronin should still be good, but it is normal to have minor flaws like a slight gap where the guard meets the blade.
Like most things, the price is typically dictated by the time and attention to detail that goes into each. Lower priced swords are typically treated like other mass production items and are produced efficiently according to a template while higher priced swords are more like artisan pieces and are produced slower with more attention and care to the details.
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Luka
Senior Forumite
Posts: 2,848
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Post by Luka on Jan 28, 2019 22:05:10 GMT
It's worth it if you want to feel what did a real sword feel like. If you just want something to cut bottles and look like a medieval sword from a 10 feet distance, than it's not worth it. :D
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 28, 2019 22:48:17 GMT
most high end swords are made by hand by someone, the man hrs it can take to create a sword can be upwards of over a hundred hrs easily, if you just calculate the costs of materials and expertise and machinery necessary to make a sword you will understand why its not cheap. Also most of the time the the higher end swords have more frills and fancy elements to them that even albions dont have, I mean if you compare some albions with some of the really high end makers the albions look pretty plain. You basically pay for a single man or a small team to make your sword from scratch, their years of experience, and their time. Generally speaking as well the higher end you go the more tight the quality control should get, its different from mass produced swords where they are being churned out in batches
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Post by Brian Kunz on Jan 28, 2019 23:03:40 GMT
$10,000
That is to date the most expensive sword I’ve had the privilege of holding.
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Post by William Swiger on Jan 29, 2019 1:21:25 GMT
I have handled a 4k sword before.
I will say from years of collecting, that Albion will sell you a sword with research built into it to give you an excellent approximation of a true medieval sword from history. The Museum Line is even better but may not be the type of sword some want. The swords will not break the bank compared to most customs.
I have a favorite from the several custom sword makers I have used for commissions. One thing I have found is there are some high end sword makers who really make some nice looking works of art. A work of art does not always translate into a good sword though. I have paid for some swords by smiths who did not have a solid understanding of blade harmonics and weight distributions.
Many medieval swords made today to include the mid-range swords are in my opinion better swords than common swords from history. Many upper end swords from history are what you see in museums and replicated by many custom smiths today. I think the common soldier using an arsenal sword or similar type sword would be quite happy with what we have today. With a few exceptions, the modern steel used today even in the mid-level of production swords is superior to historical swords. Some lower end medieval production swords (Windlass) will be outstanding but I think this is more of a random thing than them actually designing the sword that way....lol Some Hanwei medieval swords are exceptional for the price.
The bottom line is what a higher end sword means to the buyer. Same for anything you buy. I have never bought a custom sword that handled any better than an Albion and have bought a few that did not handle as well as a Windlass. The cool thing about a custom sword is you can get what you want. I like functional fantasy swords and that is usually going custom to get a really decent one.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 29, 2019 1:51:38 GMT
this, custom fantasy swords and getting exactly what u want is basically why u go custom
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 29, 2019 2:11:30 GMT
I feel when it comes to European swords it's definitely the case. Most low end swords have a thin rod peened on the pommel. If you are lucky, you get a loosely keyed pommel and a recessed but on a thin threaded tang.
Now imagine. If you grap your off hand on the pommel, the hand of leverage and torque, would you rather have a rectangular tang supporting that dynamic pressure or a thin threaded tang?
Edit: and just to add. There's a lot to learn about harmonics and nodes as well, not to mention many have distill taper
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Post by rjodorizzi on Jan 29, 2019 14:31:25 GMT
What it's worth is a totally ethereal thing. What might be worth a ton to someone might not be worth a ton to someone else. I've had 3k swords that didn't really sing to me as much as I wanted them too and I've had sub $500 pieces that speak to me in waves (looking at you Valiant Armory Noble!)
I think you can definitely see extreme quality jumps in brackets (200-500, 500-1000 etc.) but even some of these can have value wildly fluctuate depending on how much the seller needs it to go and if a buyer hits them at the right time!
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jan 29, 2019 17:56:12 GMT
You can always start low and work up. If you but a 300$ Ronin are totally happy with it, cool, just call it there. But if you aren't totally happy, you can sell or trade it, then move up a price tier repeating until you've figured out what you want.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 18:39:10 GMT
Really the best would be to get a clear picture of what you want and save and work towards it. If you don't know what you want or change your mind that is totally ok but you can save a lot of stress and time just going for the one you want.
Incremental steps are hard because you have to find someone who wants your unwanted sword and you also have the chance to lose percentages as you trade on. Every $1000 sword sold for $800 is a $200+ (PayPal, shipping, etc) step backwards.
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Zen_Hydra
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Born with a heart full of neutrality
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jan 29, 2019 18:48:38 GMT
Really the best would be to get a clear picture of what you want and save and work towards it. If you don't know what you want or change your mind that is totally ok but you can save a lot of stress and time just going for the one you want. Incremental steps are hard because you have to find someone who wants your unwanted sword and you also have the chance to lose percentages as you trade on. Every $1000 sword sold for $800 is a $200+ (PayPal, shipping, etc) step backwards. Did I miss something? Why is there an assumption that one needs to get rid of their less expensive swords when they buy a more expensive one? A "better" sword doesn't invalidate all lesser ones. I appreciate being able to readily go back and compare the quality of various swords in my collection. Doing so reminds me of what the differences really are between swords, and sometime gives me a deeper appreciation for those differences.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 18:50:28 GMT
I feel when it comes to European swords it's definitely the case. Most low end swords have a thin rod peened on the pommel. If you are lucky, you get a loosely keyed pommel and a recessed but on a thin threaded tang. Now imagine. If you grap your off hand on the pommel, the hand of leverage and torque, would you rather have a rectangular tang supporting that dynamic pressure or a thin threaded tang? Edit: and just to add. There's a lot to learn about harmonics and nodes as well, not to mention many have distill taper There are A LOT of lower end swords that are peened solidly and correct... from Windlass, from Hanwei, even from Ronin (not DSA, though... ;-)) - and quite some of them have the correct geometry, weight distribution and the infamous distal taper (me personally i couldnt care less). Well, usually i am the guy with the budget lemons - where does the "cheapo hatred" come from? Just curious... experiences SO bad?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 18:57:01 GMT
"would you rather have a rectangular tang supporting that dynamic pressure or a thin threaded tang?" Well, i can say, NONE of my budget swords has a thin threaded tang; the only ones i have with threaded AND welded tang are my Lutels, and i would trust them in any situation. And the rectangular tang... wouldnt save you on its own, would it? "would you rather have a cutting sports equipment like an Atrim that doesnt feel like a weapon at all or a sturdy built sword with some oomph?" ;-)
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 29, 2019 19:04:11 GMT
I feel when it comes to European swords it's definitely the case. Most low end swords have a thin rod peened on the pommel. If you are lucky, you get a loosely keyed pommel and a recessed but on a thin threaded tang. Now imagine. If you grap your off hand on the pommel, the hand of leverage and torque, would you rather have a rectangular tang supporting that dynamic pressure or a thin threaded tang? Edit: and just to add. There's a lot to learn about harmonics and nodes as well, not to mention many have distill taper There are A LOT of lower end swords that are peened solidly and correct... from Windlass, from Hanwei, even from Ronin (not DSA, though... ;-)) - and quite some of them have the correct geometry, weight distribution and the infamous distal taper (me personally i couldnt care less). Well, usually i am the guy with the budget lemons - where does the "cheapo hatred" come from? Just curious... experiences SO bad? Honestly this makes me happy to know. Any models you woukd personally recommend? And as for the cheapo hatred, it's more or less that I find many models insufficient. The tinker lonsword comes to mind. The threaded tang seems to snap a lot based on online accounts, despite who recommended it is.same with the shoulder/tang area. With so many breaks I'm surprised it isnt disliked as much as DSA is
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 29, 2019 19:06:23 GMT
"would you rather have a rectangular tang supporting that dynamic pressure or a thin threaded tang?" Well, i can say, NONE of my budget swords has a thin threaded tang; the only ones i have with threaded AND welded tang are my Lutels, and i would trust them in any situation. And the rectangular tang... wouldnt save you on its own, would it? "would you rather have a cutting sports equipment like an Atrim that doesnt feel like a weapon at all or a sturdy built sword with some oomph?" ;-) I uh.. Think? Sorry.. On this one there might be translation error, speaking from a point of view from someone who grew up with broken English lol. I was taught to speak English by people who didn't have English as a first language, and I'm assuming you are some form of Germanic. So apologies if I come off as rude.
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Post by Siward on Jan 29, 2019 19:10:11 GMT
$10,000 That is to date the most expensive sword I’ve had the privilege of holding. WTH was that then ? A sword made only under a full moon with dwarves as guards and an elf making it ?! 😁
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Jan 29, 2019 19:18:13 GMT
there is indeed a sword i remember that was only made under the light of the full moon and it took a crap load of time to make lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 29, 2019 19:20:25 GMT
There are A LOT of lower end swords that are peened solidly and correct... from Windlass, from Hanwei, even from Ronin (not DSA, though... ;-)) - and quite some of them have the correct geometry, weight distribution and the infamous distal taper (me personally i couldnt care less). Well, usually i am the guy with the budget lemons - where does the "cheapo hatred" come from? Just curious... experiences SO bad? Honestly this makes me happy to know. Any models you woukd personally recommend? And as for the cheapo hatred, it's more or less that I find many models insufficient. The tinker lonsword comes to mind. The threaded tang seems to snap a lot based on online accounts, despite who recommended it is.same with the shoulder/tang area. With so many breaks I'm surprised it isnt disliked as much as DSA is I should really make some vids showing how i smash my Hanweis into targets... and none of them ever let me down. Recommendations? Well... exactly these! H/T line, Hanwei Rhinelander, Windlass Roven, Windlass Homildon, Battlecry series, sooo many czech/polish/hungarian guys, Armorclass from Scotland, some Cold Steel models...
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 29, 2019 19:27:47 GMT
Honestly this makes me happy to know. Any models you woukd personally recommend? And as for the cheapo hatred, it's more or less that I find many models insufficient. The tinker lonsword comes to mind. The threaded tang seems to snap a lot based on online accounts, despite who recommended it is.same with the shoulder/tang area. With so many breaks I'm surprised it isnt disliked as much as DSA is I should really make some vids showing how i smash my Hanweis into targets... and none of them ever let me down. Recommendations? Well... exactly these! H/T line, Hanwei Rhinelander, Windlass Roven, Windlass Homildon, Battlecry series, sooo many czech/polish/hungarian guys, Armorclass from Scotland, some Cold Steel models... Those battle cry lines look solid I forgot about those. And so does the rhinelander. I happily stand corrected
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