pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 27, 2019 15:11:48 GMT
Before I go further let me say that I am not advocating butted mail in lieu of riveted mail, but it has some value. I would love to have all riveted mail but for me it is cost prohibitive. The least that I can expect to pay is $500 delivered. And what I want I estimate at over $700. And I don’t really have a need for it. There are no fairs nor reenactors in my country. I might, that is might, have need for mail once in a life time and I feel the butted mail I have will suffice in that case.
The Europeans used riveted mail in a 4 in 1 pattern while Orientals commonly used butted mail in a 6 in 1 pattern.
I believe that not all butted mail is the same although people tend to group it together as “butted mail”. I’ve read the reviews on Amazon and some of that stuff is so weak that it pulled apart when someone tried to put it on. There are variations in gauge, and ring size not to mention the metal itself.
Andi: As I said in my first post regarding riveted mail it’s lighter. I put on and off my hauberk without assistance. I spread it out on the bed with the bottom at the bed’s edge front down. I then kneel reach each arm in and through the sleeves, at this point I have it made. I might add here that while sliding my hands in I lead with my knuckles as that stuff shreds my finger nails. I then raise the bottom of the back side (top at this point) and slide my head in as far as I can, straighten up, raise my arms so that everything is directly over my head, then stand and jump up and down until all falls in place, usually a couple of times will do. To remove it I kneel on the floor with my head touching the floor. I reach behind over my head and start pulling the hauberk towards my head until I can withdraw my head. Then slip my arms out. I hate to admit it but that sorry $emprini squire of mine is never around when needed.
Venus: I have claustrophobia also. Putting on and off a hauberk is really no worse than a pull over sweater although requires a bit more effort. Below is the ZGB video. Those guys put the coif directly on the head. It would have been more effective over a decent gambeson. In any case would I not trust just either or both to protect my head. That is one case a good grade helmet is mandatory. However the point here is that while the butted mail becomes damaged it takes most of the effect of the impact. What does come through would be absorbed by a gambeson. Mail, butted or riveted, will protect from lacerations not against blunt trauma. The butted will require more maintenance everything being equal and that's why I would not use it if reenacting, but for a possible one time affair...
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 27, 2019 22:48:24 GMT
I think I am definitely sold on getting maille. Butted mail might not be bad if more rings are added in certain spots, tho riveted is definitely my goal one day. If I can get some riveted mail, I would consider my armour nearly completed. I also need a helmet and a gorget, and greaves then I am good to go. Not that I would be against getting even more than that though. If I had a full set of plate and maille, I would be so happy
Thanks for finding the video. It was an interesting watch. Would be good for a once time duel over a gambeson
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Post by csills2313 on Jan 27, 2019 23:04:11 GMT
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jan 27, 2019 23:44:22 GMT
Have you guys heard of RingMesh? I don't have any experience with it but there are or were some members here that love it. The price isn't costly of heavy. www.ringmesh.com/default.asp
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 28, 2019 0:08:34 GMT
Man... I need that
Even if it isn't as good as riveted maille (which it may or may not be), That is more than substantial for what I need. I wish people would test with more than just kitchen knives though
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jan 28, 2019 0:26:48 GMT
Man... I need that Even if it isn't as good as riveted maille (which it may or may not be), That is more than substantial for what I need. I wish people would test with more than just kitchen knives though Here is this.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 28, 2019 0:34:01 GMT
Damn that would be scary as hell to test out lol. If he wore a stab resistant vest under I bet he could have tried some harder stabs to the stomach. Good stuff though, the heavy maille did excellently. The light stuff I feel would be adequate for todays use against knives and machetes
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 28, 2019 0:53:02 GMT
Have you guys heard of RingMesh? I don't have any experience with it but there are or were some members here that love it. The price isn't costly of heavy. Ya, and after doing a test cut I changed my mind. However looking back on it I think I wasn’t entirely fair. I think because at the time my objective was to cut through it so I used a Condor Engineering Bolo, and cut about straight down while dropping. Now I see it in a different light, that is wearing it as street wear under my shirt. In the street I suspect my assailant will be using a pocket size folder or box cutter and slashing. I believe that the ring mesh will stand up to that. It is quite comfortable equalling my street clothes and as it is SS there will be no oil or rust issues.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jan 28, 2019 1:35:58 GMT
Damn that would be scary as hell to test out lol. If he wore a stab resistant vest under I bet he could have tried some harder stabs to the stomach. Good stuff though, the heavy maille did excellently. The light stuff I feel would be adequate for todays use against knives and machetes The light stuff, Is Ringmesh . It's looks like it's intended for modern day blades and costuming then it is for swords.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jan 28, 2019 1:56:28 GMT
Have you guys heard of RingMesh? I don't have any experience with it but there are or were some members here that love it. The price isn't costly of heavy. Ya, and after doing a test cut I changed my mind. However looking back on it I think I wasn’t entirely fair. I think because at the time my objective was to cut through it so I used a Condor Engineering Bolo, and cut about straight down while dropping. Now I see it in a different light, that is wearing it as street wear under my shirt. In the street I suspect my assailant will be using a pocket size folder or box cutter and slashing. I believe that the ring mesh will stand up to that. It is quite comfortable equalling my street clothes and as it is SS there will be no oil or rust issues. Did you make a video of that test? I'm curious to see how you tested it. That's pretty much what it was made for. I don't think they had Medieval weapons in mind. Unless it's fo a costume or something like that. This is the chain mail that I have. 18ga, 6mm, flat riveted, and flat solid rings made by Lord Of Battle.
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Post by csills2313 on Jan 28, 2019 1:59:33 GMT
Pgandy, that’s some really nice looking riveted mail. How much did it cost?
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 28, 2019 2:12:41 GMT
Ya, and after doing a test cut I changed my mind. However looking back on it I think I wasn’t entirely fair. I think because at the time my objective was to cut through it so I used a Condor Engineering Bolo, and cut about straight down while dropping. Now I see it in a different light, that is wearing it as street wear under my shirt. In the street I suspect my assailant will be using a pocket size folder or box cutter and slashing. I believe that the ring mesh will stand up to that. It is quite comfortable equalling my street clothes and as it is SS there will be no oil or rust issues. Did you make a video of that test? I'm curious to see how you tested it. That's pretty much what it was made for. I don't think they had Medieval weapons in mind. Unless it's fo a costume or something like that. This is the chain mail that I have. 18ga, 6mm, flat riveted, and flat solid rings made by Lord Of Battle. What did this cost you? Beautiful, beautiful flat rings. Thats my ideal chainmaille
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 28, 2019 2:44:19 GMT
Sorry Razor no video. At the time I had only a cheap camera that took only photographs. I was new at the game and the cut that I made is not what one would normally use in combat. The knife is too heavy for combat, and the swing too great leaving me open. It would only be practical to finish off a wounded person with no resistance left, some would even call it murder. There is a thread in which people are trying to equate certain swords with Ruger. With that in mind I’ll equate the Condor Engineering Bolo to a Mack truck.
That’s some good looking mail you have and 6 mm, 18 ga. is impressive. The price by the time I imported it would be staggering.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 28, 2019 2:51:48 GMT
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 28, 2019 2:51:51 GMT
Yea, I am in a similar boat. The importing fees are killer, even just to Canada.
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Razor
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Post by Razor on Jan 28, 2019 3:23:24 GMT
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jan 28, 2019 3:39:26 GMT
Daaaammnnn.... That is expensive now. What luck to get it at that price
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Post by tancred on Jan 28, 2019 6:41:19 GMT
Hope I'm not derailing the thread too much with this question, but to anyone who knows, is there an advantage with flat ring mail over round ring mail? Or, is one more historically accurate over the other?
Still planning on buying a new, riveted aluminum hauberk in the future. Just want to get a better idea about the pros and cons of the different kinds of mail are. Thanks!
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 28, 2019 7:40:40 GMT
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 28, 2019 12:38:19 GMT
Hope I'm not derailing the thread too much with this question, but to anyone who knows, is there an advantage with flat ring mail over round ring mail? Or, is one more historically accurate over the other? Still planning on buying a new, riveted aluminum hauberk in the future. Just want to get a better idea about the pros and cons of the different kinds of mail are. Thanks! I don’t know about true advantages but I find my flat mail more comfortable as it’s thinner and allows more room under my helmet. I find the butted mail possibly more pleasing to the touch as I make sure the two ends of a ring match up making it smoother. With the riveted mail the rivet passes through the ring and protrudes a little making it somewhat prickly. Domed rivets may not have that problem.
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