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Post by ericb1956 on Jan 18, 2019 7:52:37 GMT
My next question is, what exactly is the difference between the 1867 and the 1899 blades? I've been reading that all the M1867 blades are curved, and the M1899 blades are straight. I originally thought that the cavalry swords are curved, and the infantry swords are straight. So, what exactly denotes the difference between the M1867 and the M1899?
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Post by ericb1956 on Jan 26, 2019 19:39:18 GMT
Anyone?
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 26, 2019 20:23:20 GMT
The Swiss M1867 still had a curved fighting blade of sorts. The M1899 was a Dress sword for all Officers, be it Cavalry or Infantry. The blade may be able to poke a hole into a person during in a civilian brawl, but it was not combat worthy anymore. I think the M1899 Cavalry had a somewhat wider basket than the Infantry, but that was about all.
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Post by ericb1956 on Feb 1, 2019 2:47:13 GMT
I was wondering, because the guy I bought it from said it was an M1867, but in another forum I was told that it's a model M1899 because of the rather straight blade. It DOES have a slight curve in the blade, but nowhere near as much as the M1867 sabre.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Feb 1, 2019 2:58:17 GMT
As far as I can tell, the M1899IOD has a double fullered blade. Mine was wimpy.
How heavy is yours/where does the balance?
I am voting M1867, but much later.
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 2, 2019 5:33:25 GMT
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Post by ericb1956 on Feb 13, 2019 5:24:40 GMT
As far as I can tell, the M1899IOD has a double fullered blade. Mine was wimpy. How heavy is yours/where does the balance? I am voting M1867, but much later. It's very light, but it's also a lot shorter than the regular Swiss swords, almost like for a cadet. Balance is about 2" forward of the handle.
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Post by ericb1956 on Feb 13, 2019 5:26:26 GMT
I've looked through that site when you posted it before, and this sword isn't in there. And there's no Swiss cross on the sword nor the scabbard save the one big one on the bolt. I guess it doesn't exist??? 🤣🤣🤣
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Uhlan
Member
Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Feb 13, 2019 5:39:06 GMT
Not as an Army type then or anything Official. So, if it is Swiss, then you'll have to look elsewhere like in the Eidgenossen or other Vereins. Didn't we have this conversation before btw? It could be local militia, shooting club, etc, etc. Victorian times, so there are lots and lots of clubs with officials who had some kind of Degen. It is a pity in a way this thing has a cross. Now it cannot be a Wurttemberger, or other German state. The problem is that if it is not Army or the Eidgenossen, you cannot use militairy criteria anymore. Blade types, regulations, specifications, everything goes out of the window. So, if it is some Degen from the social sphere, you'll never find it short of an inscription. Could even be some tourist souvenir. That is the problem. Outside of the Militairy world you bought these things for $2,99 from a catalogue. Ever seen an old 1890's Sears catalogue? Astonishing! So, in short: Militairy = specifications, blade types, regulations. Non Military = Jungle where anything goes and stuff will only be found when there is an inscription or by sheer chance. Blade types and other niceties for dating or determining are out of the window. Everybody could damn well do whatever they wanted and they did.
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Post by ericb1956 on Feb 13, 2019 13:41:14 GMT
Not as an Army type then or anything Official. So, if it is Swiss, then you'll have to look elsewhere like in the Eidgenossen or other Vereins. Didn't we have this conversation before btw? It could be local militia, shooting club, etc, etc. Victorian times, so there are lots and lots of clubs with officials who had some kind of Degen. It is a pity in a way this thing has a cross. Now it cannot be a Wurttemberger, or other German state. The problem is that if it is not Army or the Eidgenossen, you cannot use militairy criteria anymore. Blade types, regulations, specifications, everything goes out of the window. So, if it is some Degen from the social sphere, you'll never find it short of an inscription. Could even be some tourist souvenir. That is the problem. Outside of the Militairy world you bought these things for $2,99 from a catalogue. Ever seen an old 1890's Sears catalogue? Astonishing! So, in short: Militairy = specifications, blade types, regulations. Non Military = Jungle where anything goes and stuff will only be found when there is an inscription or by sheer chance. Blade types and other niceties for dating or determining are out of the window. Everybody could damn well do whatever they wanted and they did. I'm leaning towards the "not military at all". Which to me, makes it even rarer. And yes, we did have that particular conversation before. "Swiss militia sword" has a nice ring to it...
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Post by jimmythedonut on Aug 7, 2020 19:49:12 GMT
Hi I'm sorry to be resurrecting this dead thread to ask for some help. I just got some Swiss swords in. I have a standard 1899 double fullered one from 1930 but I also received a Verein sword made around the same time by WKC (using the specific maker's mark as a benchmark). No proof marks anywhere. Looks very similar in terms of etching to the modern "Swiss sword" WKC sells aside from a much thinner guard, and the fuller being on the lower half of the blade for some reason. Not all that durable but I get that it's a dress sword.
ANYWAYS, it has a logo on the flat pommel. The letters B E, both Capitalized with the E interlocking through the B. Aside from BE as an abbreviation for Bern, do any of you have an idea of what corporation or club it could belong to? As both swords are in good condition and both came from the same antiques dealer (In Quebec which makes me think it's from a French-aligned part of Switzerland) and have similar dates of manufacture, I feel like both belonged to the same person.
I'm going to be making a thread here and on a few other forums in the coming days too, I'm going to take on the arduous task of trying to make a single comprehensive post/thread/guide to Swiss swords from the mid 19th century onwards looking for measurements, government materials, etc. but that's a topic for another day. If anyone has any guesses, please direct them my way, I do like solving mysteries.
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Aug 8, 2020 16:34:43 GMT
Might the BE be a monogram made from the first letters of the owners name? Like ,, Bernd Emmerich ''? As I understand it the denomination Vaud, Bern, etc was only found on the regulation sabres/swords and as far as I know, on the spine of the blade? That would be after 1852 of course.
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