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Post by karus on Jan 4, 2019 14:45:19 GMT
Many years ago I started my collecting with a genuine ANXI cuirassier sword intending at some point to acquire an original ANXI light cavalry sabre as a companion piece. Well time has passed and original light cav`s in similar condition are now very pricey (my `heavy` only cost me £200 back in the day) so I had to be content with a WE replica. Now don`t get me wrong I actually am v fond of this piece but as a replica it`s a bit of a disaster. Blade too narrow, ricasso too long, taper too slight and the guard/grip...don`t get me started! Anyway few weeks ago I bought a ANIX carabineer troopers sword from Empire Costumes and it`s a beauty...beautifully finished, lively in the hand and from the limited amount of research I`ve been able to do historically accurate. While browsing `Empires` site I saw their ANXI light cav` and just had to get one. IMHO this piece sets the benchmark for historic replicas. I`ve read Mr David Kelly`s review and agree whole heartedly with his comments with perhaps one exception. In his piece Dave says that the guard is too small & incorrectly shaped... I believe someone commented that the guard looks `compressed` I terms of the hilts size, I find this perfectly comfortable and although I don`t have an original to compare it seems within the ballpark for me. Regarding the hilt shape..while researching this sabre I`ve seen many photos of original weapons with the same compressed look and can`t help wondering if this is a copy of a damaged item since there are many extant examples of `heavy` cav swords with the same compressed features. Where I`ve seen these the explanation has always been that the sword was involved in an incident where the rider has fallen from his mount and landed awkwardly on his sword and/or the horse subsequently also rolled on the weapon. This would certainly account for the less flared shape of the guard. All that said this piece is wonderful to hold...it just `feels` right and it`s by far the best AN XI light sabre currently available Attachments:
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 5, 2019 5:22:58 GMT
,, I believe someone commented that the guard looks `compressed`''.
That was me and it is. The first bar doesn't make its full and wide curve.
Anyway, glad you like the Empire production. Seeing the two together it is easy to spot the differences. The WEI even has the olives wrong. You would have the perfect replica if it were possible to place the WEI hilt on the Empire though. The F1, the current French parade sabre, is another one that comes quite close.
Cheers.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Jan 5, 2019 6:16:30 GMT
I really like mine. I will say though that the langets are bulky to the point of making it uncomfortable to handle without gloves or near the top of the guard. Would be nice if they were flatter.
Which is a shame because the grip and blade are so so nice!
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Post by karus on Jan 5, 2019 13:01:00 GMT
,, I believe someone commented that the guard looks `compressed`''. That was me and it is. The first bar doesn't make its full and wide curve. Anyway, glad you like the Empire production. Seeing the two together it is easy to spot the differences. The WEI even has the olives wrong. You would have the perfect replica if it were possible to place the WEI hilt on the Empire though. The F1, the current French parade sabre, is another one that comes quite close. Cheers.
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Post by karus on Jan 5, 2019 13:24:37 GMT
Hi there...many thanks for the reply to my post and I absolutely agree with you that the guard dos`nt conform in some respects to extant examples of this sabre so was wondering why `Empire` would get it wrong. As I said in the post there are examples out there which actually look very similar to this one and where I`ve seen similar issues on ANXI curassier swords the explanation I`ve had from the dealer is that the deformation was the result of a fall. Presumably provided the sword was still serviceable then it was retained in service and comes down to us in this condition. Just speculating really because they seem to have gone to a lot of trouble just to get it wrong when they could just as easily have got it right. The only explanation I could come up with is that they copied a slightly damaged weapon
anyway kind regards J
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Post by Dave Kelly on Jan 5, 2019 14:42:50 GMT
Hi there...many thanks for the reply to my post and I absolutely agree with you that the guard dos`nt conform in some respects to extant examples of this sabre so was wondering why `Empire` would get it wrong. As I said in the post there are examples out there which actually look very similar to this one and where I`ve seen similar issues on ANXI curassier swords the explanation I`ve had from the dealer is that the deformation was the result of a fall. Presumably provided the sword was still serviceable then it was retained in service and comes down to us in this condition. Just speculating really because they seem to have gone to a lot of trouble just to get it wrong when they could just as easily have got it right. The only explanation I could come up with is that they copied a slightly damaged weapon anyway kind regards J Wholesalers and manufacturers, in this trade, are extremely coy about where they get their swords from. The majority of them are from India. Producers are contractually bound to keep quiet about their engagement, or whether or not they subbed their contract, part or whole, to another shop. When Britain had a Raj in India, they supplied their native regiments with "India Pattern" swords. Universally these models had hilts modified to anatomical concessions for the local population they recruited there. I would argue that those manufactories often produce replicas, back engineered from photos and templated to their native consumers, resulting in what appears to be downsized hilts. Some producers, such as the Chouhan's, have improved on their historical realism. Other end of the spectrum is Deepeeka, who have retained a market strategy of "keep it cheap for display use only".
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Post by karus on Jan 5, 2019 16:00:36 GMT
Hello Dave...thanks for that. That`s certainly a very valid point. If this was copied from another replica then you could certainly see why this one is the way it is. There is another `possible` explanation however and I would be interested in your thoughts.
For the sake of argument lets take `Empires`word for it that this was copied from an extant ANXI (which to be fair I would like to do) and maybe agree that the `compressed` guard geometry is the result of damage in service? Obviously that does`nt explain the smaller dimensions of the guard when compared to an original piece so another explanation needs to found for this.
A couple of years ago I was exploring the possibility of replacing the brass frame of a civil war confederate G&G navy colt. The workshop I spoke to told me that in brass casting the shrinkage is up to 10% of the original piece (something to do with the interface between the hot metal and the mould) so that I could`nt just use the original frame as a pattern & in order to get the true measurements I would have to supply an outsize pattern for the mould and then machine it up to the correct size.. If the manufacturer of this piece used an original (damaged) guard as the pattern for the mould you would expect to see up to 10% material loss in all dimensions compared to the original. Cleaning up the casting would reduce this even further.
Is it possible that this is the explanation for the smaller guard ?
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 6, 2019 9:54:10 GMT
One thing I learned from my occasional contacts with Mr. Guinhut and his works, is that he knows his business and the business as a whole very well. Also, he knows his clients. At the core of his user base are a great number of rather affluent persons and entities that demand the best. And WEI and others could not and would not deliver. Emphasis on would not. Comes Universal and Mr. Guinhut sees his chance. It all works out and the rest is history. Blue and gild blades, much better blades in general, better grips, better dimensions of hilts etc. Notice also that the gild patterns on the Guinhut blades are exactly done as the patterns of old. I say this because on KOA I stumbled upon a blue and gild blade from WEI, are they waking up?, that is not conform the old patterns and looks rubbish to me. Like Franklin Mint decals. Now, do you think that a person like Mr. Guinhut, with his attention for detail, on some sabres and scabbards I think I see that the way the decoration is done is slowly moving to the European style and away from the traditional Indian way of excecuting European patterns, does not know that the hilts on the new light cavalry sabre are rubbish? Of course he knows. He just wants to sell them off as quickly as possible. I bet a new batch will not show the defect. As a reminder of what Mr. Guinhut was up against: After years of complaining at WEI they still refused to change the upside down ring mounts on the Train d'Artillery sabres. They still refuse to do so to this day. Their user base is in India mainly, so who cares? They don't, that's for sure. Come Mr. Guinhut and Universal and hoopla, error corrected. WEI. Empire.
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Post by karus on Jan 6, 2019 10:08:02 GMT
Very fair points!...Oh well I guess we`ll just have to wait and see. Nice to chat though best wishes J
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Uhlan
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Posts: 3,121
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 6, 2019 10:16:34 GMT
And best wishes to you too karus.
Cheers.
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Post by bluetrain on Jan 6, 2019 12:27:31 GMT
Concerning "compressed hilts," I note that the hilt of the US Army Officer's saber has taken slightly various forms over the years with regards to the exact shape, or rather, the curve of the branches of the guards, although I'm not sure I'd describe any of them as compressed. However, many old army officer's swords do indeed have compressed guards because of damage in storage (and rusty scabbards, too!).
I once sent an inquiry to one of the Indian sword manufacturers and quickly received a reply, asking me all sorts of questions about the company I worked for (before I had retired) and so on. I don't remember what I asked now but I think the company as Universal, which produces the most military pattern models.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on Jan 6, 2019 13:14:54 GMT
Most modern military sabres are produced by Windlass and have been produced there for a very long time. WKC and others like Pooly pretend to produce for the more upmarked segment of that trade. In my opinion it is still a question as to whether they produce themselves or have contracts with Windlass giving them access to slightly better Windlass products, thus increasing their margins. They are companies, so the bottom line rules. Whether they indeed get their slightly upgraded parts from Windlass or that there are other sources, Pooly let slip once that they do not make their blades but got them from Marocco I believe it was, involved, like Marto, is not clear to me. Where the parts come from is not important to them as long as assembly is done in Europe so they can lawfully claim that they make swords. Slick advertising and good web design takes care of the rest. But as far as I can see it's Windlass all around since I guess WWII. Like Dave says, this is a murky business indeed.
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