tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
|
Post by tonystark on Jan 25, 2019 3:50:01 GMT
As rough and tumble as us guys are known to get (ie....getting rowdy watching football, or a boxing match) I don’t see any of us “modern Gents” thirsting for blood, or not being adversely affected in any way if one day we were forced to take a life in defense of another. If we were living in ancient Rome for instance, and our only source of entertainment was at the Coliseum watching Gladiators fight each other to a very bloody end, our perception of how important the life of another man is (or for that matter how desensitized the Romans actually became to watching such murderous “games” for entertainment) would be considered severely warped according to today’s standards. An intruder entering your home in the dark of night, with intent to rob, rape, or take the life of anyone he encounters, pretty much forfeits his right to live at that point. I understand religious reasons for not wanting to end anyone’s life, I just don’t think I could be patient or understanding enough to care about the fate of someone who would have happily killed, robbed, or raped anyone they came across. I think it’s very commendable that you feel the way you do! It’s just that when it comes to the life and safety of my daughter and wife, I’m always going to choose them over some scum-sucker that preys on the innocent. Sorry I know that was quite the rant 😅
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 25, 2019 4:34:14 GMT
As rough and tumble as us guys are known to get (ie....getting rowdy watching football, or a boxing match) I don’t see any of us “modern Gents” thirsting for blood, or not being adversely affected in any way if one day we were forced to take a life in defense of another. If we were living in ancient Rome for instance, and our only source of entertainment was at the Coliseum watching Gladiators fight each other to a very bloody end, our perception of how important the life of another man is (or for that matter how desensitized the Romans actually became to watching such murderous “games” for entertainment) would be considered severely warped according to today’s standards. An intruder entering your home in the dark of night, with intent to rob, rape, or take the life of anyone he encounters, pretty much forfeits his right to live at that point. I understand religious reasons for not wanting to end anyone’s life, I just don’t think I could be patient or understanding enough to care about the fate of someone who would have happily killed, robbed, or raped anyone they came across. I think it’s very commendable that you feel the way you do! It’s just that when it comes to the life and safety of my daughter and wife, I’m always going to choose them over some scum-sucker that preys on the innocent. Sorry I know that was quite the rant 😅 I would, and I think I can speak for you (to some degree) as well, probably care that the person(s) lives were ended by my hand, as the only goal was to stop the threat as quickly as possible. But plenty of time in dealing and living with the regrettable taking of precious human life, even wayward criminal lives. Now (this is important) would I care at the moment the invasion was taking place...NO...only after the fact and the threat is over. Once the decision to pull the trigger is made you employ whatever dark thoughts (never to be discussed with authorities...only "I was in fear of my life/it happened so fast") go through your skull as are required to get the job done. Only their immediate surrender or retreat would alter that verdict, as they were the only authors of the unfortunate event...and you, as the righteous defender, were simply executing a thoughtless function...like taking out the trash.
|
|
|
Post by bluetrain on Jan 25, 2019 12:12:20 GMT
The legal term of course is "breaking and entering," not home invasion. There is also simple trespassing. There is a tendency to use certain words and expressions over others, probably to make you feel better. The man (always a man) is a "perp," not a suspect. I don't know how the police feel about being called cops or other terms.
A true Christian would probably not have anything worth stealing, would they? Are there such people? Yet even homeless people get robbed (or "ripped off," as people used to say).
Looking over the crime report in yesterday's paper (a once a week listing), there are few serious crimes listed, although there were several listings for trespassing, one of which resulted in an arrest and a person being charged. I also note that harassing or obscene phone calls are listed under assaults. Overall, not bad for a county with over a million residents from just about everywhere. I'm not from here either.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 25, 2019 20:49:05 GMT
The legal term of course is "breaking and entering," not home invasion. There is also simple trespassing. There is a tendency to use certain words and expressions over others, probably to make you feel better. The man (always a man) is a "perp," not a suspect. I don't know how the police feel about being called cops or other terms. A true Christian would probably not have anything worth stealing, would they? Are there such people? Yet even homeless people get robbed (or "ripped off," as people used to say). Looking over the crime report in yesterday's paper (a once a week listing), there are few serious crimes listed, although there were several listings for trespassing, one of which resulted in an arrest and a person being charged. I also note that harassing or obscene phone calls are listed under assaults. Overall, not bad for a county with over a million residents from just about everywhere. I'm not from here either. We are talking about Tony Starks post of the HOME INVASION in Texas where 5 SCUMBAGS (wearing masks and shooting back) were shot, correct? Now I feel better. Please stay focused on the particular story instead of veering into the general philosophical weeds with Jesus Christ & a bottle of bourbon...which I would gladly join in on, btw, as this story is simply a cut & dry case of righteous home defense.
|
|
|
Post by bluetrain on Jan 25, 2019 21:01:09 GMT
You're using names again and anyway, I don't drink bourbon. Please understand that I'm not saying that to make you feel worse.
Why do you suppose they picked on him in the first place? Or was it a random drive-by home invasion? I realize that it's not relevant to the outcome but one should do what one can to avoid such things happening.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 25, 2019 23:10:09 GMT
You're using names again and anyway, I don't drink bourbon. Please understand that I'm not saying that to make you feel worse. Why do you suppose they picked on him in the first place? Or was it a random drive-by home invasion? I realize that it's not relevant to the outcome but one should do what one can to avoid such things happening. Oh, your DAMN tooting I'm using names to describe those effing scum bag criminals, as I responded in no uncertain terms to your statement of "there is a tendency to use certain words & expressions over others, probably to make you feel better" as it indeed makes me feel better, though I will take you at your word that your not wanting me to feel worse and that your engaged in a general (and commendable) "pro human life" stance (who can argue with that). Regarding the bourbon, you have my sympathy;) . Will we find out extenuating circumstances regarding the case...I will amend my opinion as warranted. However, THEY were engaged in a HOME INVASION, wearing masks, shooting back, and these facts are the only things currently on the table. I'm with you on further speculation and philosophical debate on general topics, but I believe that is a different discussion.
|
|
tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
|
Post by tonystark on Jan 27, 2019 22:53:10 GMT
As rough and tumble as us guys are known to get (ie....getting rowdy watching football, or a boxing match) I don’t see any of us “modern Gents” thirsting for blood, or not being adversely affected in any way if one day we were forced to take a life in defense of another. If we were living in ancient Rome for instance, and our only source of entertainment was at the Coliseum watching Gladiators fight each other to a very bloody end, our perception of how important the life of another man is (or for that matter how desensitized the Romans actually became to watching such murderous “games” for entertainment) would be considered severely warped according to today’s standards. An intruder entering your home in the dark of night, with intent to rob, rape, or take the life of anyone he encounters, pretty much forfeits his right to live at that point. I understand religious reasons for not wanting to end anyone’s life, I just don’t think I could be patient or understanding enough to care about the fate of someone who would have happily killed, robbed, or raped anyone they came across. I think it’s very commendable that you feel the way you do! It’s just that when it comes to the life and safety of my daughter and wife, I’m always going to choose them over some scum-sucker that preys on the innocent. Sorry I know that was quite the rant 😅 I would, and I think I can speak for you (to some degree) as well, probably care that the person(s) lives were ended by my hand, as the only goal was to stop the threat as quickly as possible. But plenty of time in dealing and living with the regrettable taking of precious human life, even wayward criminal lives. Now (this is important) would I care at the moment the invasion was taking place...NO...only after the fact and the threat is over. Once the decision to pull the trigger is made you employ whatever dark thoughts (never to be discussed with authorities...only "I was in fear of my life/it happened so fast") go through your skull as are required to get the job done. Only their immediate surrender or retreat would alter that verdict, as they were the only authors of the unfortunate event...and you, as the righteous defender, were simply executing a thoughtless function...like taking out the trash. 100% Agree! Self defense is a reaction to an imminent threat on your safety or that of another, made quicker and more efficiently by constant training. Training is not an exercise that promotes violence or makes one violent in itself, it is merely preparation for a possible future event (not one looked forward to of course) that you wish to control the outcome of. Sort of like survival training in a woodland or desert environment. It’s a”just in case” precaution, for lack of a better term. I sat through a course where a Pro 2nd Amendment lawyer said the very thing you just did about how to act, and what to say (or NOT to say) in the aftermath of a defensive shooting. Righteous Defender.....I like that 😉
|
|
tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
|
Post by tonystark on Jan 27, 2019 23:30:40 GMT
The legal term of course is "breaking and entering," not home invasion. There is also simple trespassing. There is a tendency to use certain words and expressions over others, probably to make you feel better. The man (always a man) is a "perp," not a suspect. I don't know how the police feel about being called cops or other terms. A true Christian would probably not have anything worth stealing, would they? Are there such people? Yet even homeless people get robbed (or "ripped off," as people used to say). Looking over the crime report in yesterday's paper (a once a week listing), there are few serious crimes listed, although there were several listings for trespassing, one of which resulted in an arrest and a person being charged. I also note that harassing or obscene phone calls are listed under assaults. Overall, not bad for a county with over a million residents from just about everywhere. I'm not from here either. When a person is charged with breaking and entering another person's home, prosecutors frequently charge both Home Invasion and Burglary. Burglary is entering a protected structure with the intent to commit a crime inside. In contrast, Home Invasion is forcibly entering an occupied residence. To be considered "occupied" someone must live in the residence, but that person does not have to be home at the time of the offense. www.thelasvegasdefender.com/blog/2011/may/telling-the-difference-between-home-invasion-and/I’m a little confused as to why a Christian isn’t considered a “true Christian” if he had a TV, a computer (which you are currently using), or a wife or girlfriend’s jewelry. All those things can be sold for crack & heroin money. A drug addict will steal anything and everything! Not all home invasions are based on thievery. Sociopaths only want to hurt, torture, and kill innocent people. Go look up Dennis Rader, otherwise known as the BTK Killer, and tell me he didn’t “invade” those innocent peoples homes. Do you not live in the US by the way??
|
|
|
Post by William Swiger on Jan 28, 2019 12:06:43 GMT
Many non-Christians validate their negative views of Christians by saying a “true Christian” would never accumulate material possessions. I have never been a fan of any religious leader living in splendor off the backs of their supporters.....However, to be a Christian does not mean you have to take a vow of poverty.
I firmly believe taking a human life is a serious matter. I also believe there are evil people the world would be better off without. Many wars happen to eliminate these people. We live in a world that contains good, bad and indifferent people. I think indifferent are almost as bad as evil people. There are many people who place no value on human life. I feel if someone is intent on breaking into my home and/or assaulting me, they have made a decision and have to know the risks involved. If they try to steal and/or hurt me or others, my response will be violent. I will only be as violent as necessary.
On the flip side, I have given to charity and people many years and continue to do so. Would give the shirt off my back to help someone. If you need help, ask me for help. Do not try to hurt me or anyone around me. Also, please do not steal from me. I promise to never hurt or steal from you.
|
|
tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
|
Post by tonystark on Jan 30, 2019 1:04:21 GMT
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
That’s awesome that you contribute to charities William! I always donate to the local homeless shelters, and contribute clothes to those who need them. There are plenty who need help in this world.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 30, 2019 2:51:24 GMT
I think there has always been a "they don't make them the way they used to" attitude for just about everything. Curiously, the same people seem to say that you shouldn't buy a new model when it first comes out. Wait until they get the kinks worked out. People say that about cars, anyway. So apparently nothing comes perfect and nothing stays perfect. But for a while, things are perfect. A couple of examples I can think of relating to guns are about revolvers. The more recent (and it isn't that recent by now) concerns those barrels without pins on S&W revolvers. On some of my older revolvers, they were easy enough to tap out, so I don't know what good they did. Colt never had them. But Colt never reduced the number of screws holding the side plate. S&W eliminated them one by one. They're down to two now but they've added a lock. Once upon a time, S&W revolvers had a so-called long action. Then they switched to the short action. Suddenly the older long action models became the thing to have. They were infinitely superior to the new-fangled models. That was just a few years after I was born. Colt, for its part, earned the scorn of the would-be gunfighter fraternity (men only) when they introduced the firing pin safety, which of course spoiled everything. Just like the grip safety, it was totally unnecessary. After all, the serious gunfighter would pin down the grip safety--for safety's sake, of course. We all know that perfection was achieved before most of our grandparents were born. One of my grandfathers was born the year the Colt Single Action Army revolver was adopted, by the way, a most perfect revolver. Oh, and another thing; it's okay to say automatic pistol. That's what it says on the side of a Colt Government Model: .45 Automatic Caliber. But I don't mind if you call it a semi-automatic. But I think I'll keep on calling it a .45 auto. “I think there has always been a "they don't make them the way they used to" attitude for just about everything. Curiously, the same people seem to say that you shouldn't buy a new model when it first comes out. Wait until they get the kinks worked out. People say that about cars, anyway. So apparently nothing comes perfect and nothing stays perfect. But for a while, things are perfect.” VERY well said! I bought the Sig P320 when it first came out, and that’s something I rarely do, and everyone was complaining about “drop safety.” With the P365 I gave Sig a full year to work out all their issues before I bought it. However as you put it, “nothing comes perfect or stays perfect.” Well except Colt single action revolvers! 😉 Actually my next gun is going to be a single action revolver. There’s no way I could afford an actual Colt revolver, even the Pythons, without selling a kidney or two, but there are some Colt clones that come relatively close. I’m thinking a 5-6” barrel and chambered in .45lc. I used to say .45 auto all the time, but I got sick of gun terminology Nazi’s trying to “correct” me by saying if it’s not fully automatic then it’s semi-auto 🤯 I too have waited with baited breath on when to pull the trigger on pulling the trigger of my very own P365, and I think Sig dicked the freshman teething issues. A gun with the size of a G43 and the capacity of a G26 (basically a brick) is pretty damn compelling. I wonder why, with most of the guns in that size range sporting 7 round capacity (including the 12.7oz Kel-tek pf9), the G43 only holds SIX?!? Six vs ten is a BLOW AWAY and a game changer that is sure to put a dent in Glock 43 sales. Do you think the P365 is worth $499 (from current sources), and do you believe the price will go down some?
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,827
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Jan 30, 2019 4:33:45 GMT
If it works Howler it's WELL worth the price. It feels good in hand, has AWESOME Sig x-ray night sights out of the box, holds 10 rds but is smaller then my Shield and pretty much the same size as the g43 which, as you said, holds 6. It's a better mouse trap... It came out while I was in the Middle East and I was SURE it would become my new main carry gun. Then the reports of issues started coming in. It may well still be mine in the future once I'm sure the issues are worked out.
|
|
|
Post by howler on Jan 30, 2019 6:30:22 GMT
If it works Howler it's WELL worth the price. It feels good in hand, has AWESOME Sig x-ray night sights out of the box, holds 10 rds but is smaller then my Shield and pretty much the same size as the g43 which, as you said, holds 6. It's a better mouse trap... It came out while I was in the Middle East and I was SURE it would become my new main carry gun. Then the reports of issues started coming in. It may well still be mine in the future once I'm sure the issues are worked out. Yeah, and that 12rnd (+2) mag extension doesn't look much larger, especially considering most round extensions on the sub compact single stacks only offer one (+1) round increase. I heard they built the p365 from & around the magazine and that it had three patents, one of them was a pyramid type structure where most of the rounds were at the bottom of the magazine and that it got progressively narrower near the feed ramp, while most conventional magazines are evenly staggered. Glock, who popularized the high capacity game, finally coming out with a single stack that offeres one less (6 vs 7) round than the competition really makes the comparison to Sigs TEN a truly ugly one. I think/know it is worth the price ($500), but was wondering if the current cost will actually go down and that the present price is due to popular demand.
|
|
|
Post by William Swiger on Jan 30, 2019 12:14:16 GMT
I almost bought this pistol but have too many 9mm in the collection. I do have a few by Sig: P220 West German 45 ACP, P938, and a SP2022 357 Sig. They are all quality firearms.
|
|
|
Post by Croccifixio on Jan 31, 2019 4:44:57 GMT
So the new version coming out sports a manual safety. As a father of unpredictable kids, it's something I'm seriously considering. I've often carried pistols with manual safeties like 1911s and the Taurus PT111 G2, and always trained at flipping the safety down in the draw stroke itself. Currently have a gun ban in place where I live so I have time to consider it.
|
|
tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
|
Post by tonystark on Feb 1, 2019 3:31:00 GMT
Here’s a picture of the 12 rounders gents. It’s honestly not much bigger, and you get 2 more rounds out of it, plus a full 3 fingered grip. Which for guys like me with big ol’ mitts, it’s a big deal! Also the price is $499.99 at quite a few online retailers, but whether it’ll go any lower (unless you have L.E credentials like I do, or your military papers) or not I don’t know.
|
|
Sean (Shadowhowler)
VIP Reviewer
Retired Moderator
No matter where you go, there you are.
Posts: 8,827
|
Post by Sean (Shadowhowler) on Feb 1, 2019 3:54:01 GMT
I actually bought two for 450 right after I got back to the States in May last year... But I sold em before even shooting them after I learned of they issues. When/if that is resolved to my satisfaction I will almost certainly get one or two again because with it's features, capacity, grip comfort... It's the best concealed carry weapon on the market IMO. If it's problem free.
|
|
|
Post by wlewisiii on Feb 1, 2019 4:25:42 GMT
I keep following this thread because I'd like a more compact 9mm than my EDC (Taurus PT-92) but I'm terribly fussy. I had a Glock 19 once but I don't miss it - I hated having to pull the trigger to take it down and disliked the trigger (though it was adequate once I put the NY-1 spring in it) and lack of real safety. In the end, the P365 though interesting just isn't what I'd like.
What I'd like is something like the Star BM that's currently made (parts issues for the Star), hammer fired, manual safety, SA/DA preferred, single stack, steel frame & inexpensive enough that I can actually afford it. Possibly an impossible set of requirements these days.
|
|
tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
|
Post by tonystark on Feb 1, 2019 22:44:42 GMT
I actually bought two for 450 right after I got back to the States in May last year... But I sold em before even shooting them after I learned of they issues. When/if that is resolved to my satisfaction I will almost certainly get one or two again because with it's features, capacity, grip comfort... It's the best concealed carry weapon on the market IMO. If it's problem free. You may have been better off getting rid of those two, because I can personally attest to my own (bought in December with 700 rounds through it) not having any of the reported problems at all. Not even the aesthetic complaint about the backs of the magazines getting scratched up! I do a lot of dry-firing with it, so in “trigger pulls” I’m easily over a 1,000 with no trigger return spring issues in the least. I still maintain that the other gun manufacturers have a LOT of catching up to do so they can produce an equivalent handgun to compete with the P365. With the bugs worked out, the P365 completely dominates the subcompact market! I am curious about Mossberg’s new subcompact release, for its very reasonable price, and so far shining reviews. www.mossberg.com/category/series/mc1sc/ Also the new Steyr looks sooooo good:
|
|
tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
|
Post by tonystark on Feb 1, 2019 23:03:03 GMT
I keep following this thread because I'd like a more compact 9mm than my EDC (Taurus PT-92) but I'm terribly fussy. I had a Glock 19 once but I don't miss it - I hated having to pull the trigger to take it down and disliked the trigger (though it was adequate once I put the NY-1 spring in it) and lack of real safety. In the end, the P365 though interesting just isn't what I'd like. What I'd like is something like the Star BM that's currently made (parts issues for the Star), hammer fired, manual safety, SA/DA preferred, single stack, steel frame & inexpensive enough that I can actually afford it. Possibly an impossible set of requirements these days. Believe it or not I get it. I’m into different guns, and ones that no one else has. My Arex Rex Zero 1 Compact is evidence of that. Out of all my friends, and all the other Pro 2nd Amendment people I talk to online, I don’t know anyone else that has one. Ironically it meets all the things you’re looking for, but it’s about $600. If you buy it from someone like Buds Gun Shop they have 90 layaways and stuff like that, and you can trade in older guns towards newer ones as well. I do believe they have a 180 day layaway that the Rex Zero 1 occasionally shows up on from time to time. But if the Star BM meets all your needs than by all means buy what makes you happy 😉 I just don’t know if you can get a Concealed Carry holster for the BM?
|
|