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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 24, 2018 0:26:58 GMT
What would the 1882 be considered? It's not curved, so it's not a sabre and seems somewhat separated from traditional spadroon, with two edges and an off set fuller. But I was looking at photos of walloons, and they seem like the blades could be somewhat similar, although the hilts are entirely removed from being similar. Thoughts? I'm perfectly comfortable calling it a spadroon, and entirely uncomfortable calling it a sabre. Saying Walloon bladed sabre sounds odd and too long, and saying Walloon blade on a late 19th century military sword hilt seems even more so long and odd.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 0:57:42 GMT
Why not just regard it as the infantry sword it is? The later examples really on the wimpier side. Those that want to curl up with the spadroon definition kind of overlook the fact it has only been called such since Matty labeled them as "kind of like spadroons" but in the same breath definitely calling it an infantry sword.
épée d'Officier d'infanterie vs the French épée d anglaise for some spadroons and others monture, which sometimes get labeled epee but have a broad counterguard. So yes, some English might as well call an 1882 a spadroon like the French call a spadroon an epee but it is all a bit surreal to me when we go back to the definition of a spadroon.
I find some of the 21st definitions no less than pretentious.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 24, 2018 1:17:29 GMT
Why not just regard it as the infantry sword it is? The later examples really on the wimpier side. Those that want to curl up with the spadroon definition kind of overlook the fact it has only been called such since Matty labeled them as "kind of like spadroons" but in the same breath definitely calling it an infantry sword. I find some of the 21st definitions no less than pretentious. I guess my topic is meant more to stimulate conversation. The Walloon connection my own concotion and thought it interesting. I've long thought the less wide Walloon to look like great warstabbers. Infantry sword a fitting designation. But a boring one as well. Only since M.E. said it was? Maybe but I like the term for it.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 2:25:38 GMT
There ya go. Warstabbers like the Patton saber to now be labeled spadroons.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 24, 2018 2:27:54 GMT
There ya go. Warstabbers like the Patton saber to now be labeled spadroons. Type on my part to have war and stabber be joined together. But warsword already a term, so why not. I think of the Patton as more a pallasch imo but if you think spadroon be my guest.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 3:53:18 GMT
There ya go. Warstabbers like the Patton saber to now be labeled spadroons. Type on my part to have war and stabber be joined together. But warsword already a term, so why not. I think of the Patton as more a pallasch imo but if you think spadroon be my guest. My point as well. Why then label an 1882 a spadroon? One could as easily list both the 1882 and Patton as cutlasses. I like warstabber. That kind of rolls easily off the keyboard.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 24, 2018 4:16:46 GMT
Type on my part to have war and stabber be joined together. But warsword already a term, so why not. I think of the Patton as more a pallasch imo but if you think spadroon be my guest. My point as well. Why then label an 1882 a spadroon? One could as easily list both the 1882 and Patton as cutlasses. I like warstabber. That kind of rolls easily off the keyboard. My logic behind calling it a spadroon is because it is a light, straight military sword in the 19th century, and one would use it in much the same way as say, the 1796 or 1840 British and US spadroon patterns. Mainly for point work.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 4:48:12 GMT
epee uses fewer electrons
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 24, 2018 4:55:05 GMT
epee uses fewer electrons But electrons are so fun to use.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 5:42:55 GMT
I have many spadroons and other straight swords. A difference I categorize are slim double edged swords as epee like. Backsword for slim mostly single edged blades and broadswords for double edged of an inch or so wide at the guard. The British description for spadroons were for a light shearing backsword (McBane) (which the 1882 and US 1860 staff&field are not) I simply find it a great disservice not to differentiate a spadroon blade from other types, regardless of the hilt configuration. A British 1796 officer heavy cavalry dress sword (for instance) has a baby walloon type of blade but referred to in period as a broadsword. The boat shaped counterguard not so dissimilar to the 1796 infantry sword but one would not call the boat, a kidney type of guard. Just as a Britain would not have described a broadsword blade as a spadroon blade. Then you have the modern collectors using any stirrup guard as a spadroon, even with a sabre blade Ie: a spadroon hilted sabre. Would you call all my cruciform guard US militia swords spadroons? You base the premise on point work rather than the original description, which was a blade type meant as a small backsword. Then you have Matty ending with an 1882 as what a spadroon should have been. There you have it, a burst of electrons any are welcome to disagree with. A German might call them all degen. There is an older spadroon discussion and in the end, a lot of electrons were disturbed. Here you are Jordan in January of this year Simple typo? I dunno but you have already defined a spadroon in your id. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/53193/smallsword-spadroonReally, a need to open the hole again.? There is yet another spadroon definition thread somewhere here with the afoo and bfoo brothers. Much the same discussion with the end result the same. One is welcome to use terms as they care too and simply initiate disagreement or laughter. I see the humor in it but will describe my stuff as they have been outlined in texts generally used for more common reference and not lump most 19th century straight bladed swords as spadroons. Warstabbers it is, an all encompassing description that will go in the next book. Maybe Stabbypointers would be better
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Nov 24, 2018 6:05:52 GMT
In Germany we call it a Degen. (We call more or less every sword a Degen) "Offiziersdegen" would include epee, spadroon, "sword" in the meaning of "straight saber". I always thought Walloon is a type of guard/hilt and not a type of blade?
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Post by Deleted on Nov 24, 2018 6:12:35 GMT
One of my older arguments for spadroons sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/46659/any-experience-cold-steel-spadroonWould you call these spadroons? Two do have spadroon blades, the others are broadswords (imo) The shorter on our right an 1840 musician sword blade length and the longer one an 1840 nco length spadroon blade done by Horstmann. Really, the rest are broadswords. Honest. Really, just listing an 1882 as an 1882 kind of says it all. Here is my 1860s cannelure bladed fantastique you'd like to classify as a spadroon. With my own spadroon fetish, I have hefted a British officer's acanthus hilted heavy cavalry undress sword and exclaimed "wow, spadroon plus!" despite it being a less than straight sabre. So, I can empathize with the urge to call them all spadroons but in reality, I'll always go beyond that in descriptions of stuff. Enough from me. Let's see your spadroons!
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 24, 2018 6:36:36 GMT
I have many spadroons and other straight swords. A difference I categorize are slim double edged swords as epee like. Backsword for slim mostly single edged blades and broadswords for double edged of an inch or so wide at the guard. The British description for spadroons were for a light shearing backsword (McBane) (which the 1882 and US 1860 staff&field are not) I simply find it a great disservice not to differentiate a spadroon blade from other types, regardless of the hilt configuration. A British 1796 officer heavy cavalry dress sword (for instance) has a baby walloon type of blade but referred to in period as a broadsword. The boat shaped counterguard not so dissimilar to the 1796 infantry sword but one would not call the boat, a kidney type of guard. Just as a Britain would not have described a broadsword blade as a spadroon blade. Then you have the modern collectors using any stirrup guard as a spadroon, even with a sabre blade Ie: a spadroon hilted sabre. Would you call all my cruciform guard US militia swords spadroons? You base the premise on point work rather than the original description, which was a blade type meant as a small backsword. Then you have Matty ending with an 1882 as what a spadroon should have been. There you have it, a burst of electrons any are welcome to disagree with. A German might call them all degen. There is an older spadroon discussion and in the end, a lot of electrons were disturbed. Here you are Jordan in January of this year Simple typo? I dunno but you have already defined a spadroon in your id. sbg-sword-forum.forums.net/thread/53193/smallsword-spadroonReally, a need to open the hole again.? There is yet another spadroon definition thread somewhere here with the afoo and bfoo brothers. Much the same discussion with the end result the same. One is welcome to use terms as they care too and simply initiate disagreement or laughter. I see the humor in it but will describe my stuff as they have been outlined in texts generally used for more common reference and not lump most 19th century straight bladed swords as spadroons. Warstabbers it is, an all encompassing description that will go in the next book. Maybe Stabbypointers would be better Yeah, that's a typo. "Focused on cutting with some capacity to cut" should have made it obvious, but the need for snark often overrides any critical thought, just like as I type this. I suppose then military epee would be an accurate term for the double edged military swords like the gendarme and 1882. Military being placed in front to make a clear difference between the fencing epee and heavier fighting swords. I'll take my royalties for the term and it's derivatives once you publish something.
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