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Post by reynolds on Nov 1, 2018 15:36:02 GMT
The 32-20 rifle has the same energy and was known as a mere crippler of deer. A man is a big animal and reliable downing of a man, intstantly, requires considerable power. It's pretty common for a 100 lb deer to run off a ways, after taking a 12 ga slug thru the chest. That' 4x the power and frontal area of the 357, and a target that's 1/3rd the size of a lot of men, and the deer aint full of coke, meth, heroin or pcp, either. 30 carbine starts with 950 ft lbs of power, and even at close range, was known to not stop men all that well. Cause ball ammo wastes 1/3rd or more of its power on overpenetration. still that's hitting a man with 600+ ft lbs, eh? There have been failures to stop with a burst of .45 from a TSMG, 12 ga slugs. I rear ended a car, no seat belt, sliding on water, arm braced vs steering wheel, other one on windshield, legs locked out, etc, at 40mph. The car could of course MOVE when I hit it. I broke the steering column with my chest, bit thru the steering wheel with teeth, which shattered, cracked my jaw, too. I also broke the windshield with my head. I got out to see how the other drivers were. When I knocked the first car across the intersection, it tagged the rear end of a car that was crossing in front of him, spun his car 180 degrees. One had a small cut on his forehead, that's all If you "think" that any bullet hits with that sort of power, you're nuts. Adrenalin is REALLY magical stuff when it comes to resistance to injury.
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Post by bluetrain on Dec 3, 2018 13:11:18 GMT
You have simplified things a little. For instance, some men aren't so big. Likewise, it is nothing to knock down someone or some animal. The thing is, what happens next. Boxers get knocked down all the time but they don't necessarily get knocked out. Big difference. Boxers are used to that, though. Most of us aren't. Deer can literally get knocked down, too, but they'll get up and run, too, if they can. But perhaps you've never been knocked down.
Penetration is an important topic, though perhaps more important in some contexts than in others. In a military context, a bullet might be expected to penetrate through cover and very likely whatever gear the enemy soldier might be wearing. But it's probably a rifle bullet that we want to use instead of a handgun bullet. After all, we don't want to wait until the other man is within handgun range.
I do agree, however, that we assign illogical characteristics to different cartridges and the .30 carbine is a good example. The .30 Mauser (7.63x25) and the almost identical .30 Tokarev (especially the Czech loadings) have been described as excellent penetrating rounds able to pierce some bulletproof vests, and that with less power than a .30 carbine. The .30 carbine has been chambered in handguns, too, by the way, but have not seemed to be wildly popular.
Maybe all those failures to stop with .30 carbines were simple misses.
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Post by wlewisiii on Dec 3, 2018 17:00:03 GMT
To get 1400 fps, you'll need a nice long barrel. My 38/357 Rossi 92 with a 24" barrel will get that and it's an exquisite woods rifle as a result. I prefer a 158 gr XTP in front of a decent charge of Unique powder and it will get the job done perfectly.
And, yes, Bluetrain, I believe that the vast majority of the carbine's reputation in Korea comes from the very baggy uniforms that got perforated without hitting the Chinese soldier wearing them. You'll notice that the people who carried them against the Germans in western Europe loved them. As for handguns, all of the ones I'm aware of were revolvers and the noise from the cylinder/barrel gap is horrific. But out of the carbine, it's a rather quiet round.
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Post by bluetrain on Dec 4, 2018 0:45:49 GMT
There was a Ruger single-action in .30 carbine but I don't know of another regular production revolver in that chambering. The only automatic in .30 carbine that I do know about was the AMT AutoMag III, which I think may have been made in other chamberings, too. Don't think many were made.
But speaking of the .357 S&W Magnum, there was a big game hunter by the name of Sasha Siemel who used a spear to kill jaguars as a professional hunter in Brazil. But he also carried a .357 magnum (this was before WWII) and continued to use the same combination of weapons as a hunter and guide as long as he lived. He later moved to a Philadelphia suburb and live there until he died in 1970 at the age of 80. He lived the sort of life most of us only dream about. He was even in a couple of movies.
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