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Post by wlewisiii on Oct 21, 2018 2:22:26 GMT
All I know about the Patton is that the XM1911 was a far more interesting saber. I should find another Windlass 1906 for the blade and a Windlass Patton for the hilt
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 21, 2018 2:55:47 GMT
The 1913 Patton is often called "Patton Saber". I know "saber" isn't really the right term for those swords/palasches/degen. I just ordered the Windlass and let it sharpen. I want to see how much "rapieresque" it is. Post 1880, as cavalry swords were flocking back to straight thrusting blades, military patois, would lazily call cav swords "sabers". The Cavalry fencing manual prepared by Patton for the 1913 can be had on line. The sword was intended to be used as a thrusting weapon. Cutting wasn't even trained. The 1913 isn't rapieresque, because it has a basket hilt: no over the quillon finger tangle to deal with. The sword has an excellent double edged broadsword blade; something the 1908 lacks, and the chief complaint of those who didn't want to see it become the standard cavalry sword for the Army. Personally I think the Windlass 1913 is a pretty decent rep for the sword. The scabbards have been cheapened in recent years. At three pounds it is a heavy sword, but the balance of the weapon, suitable to a thrusted is excellent. Have fun.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 22, 2018 8:50:43 GMT
I downloaded the Patton Saber Exercise Manual 1914 for "SABER" (tataaa! ) fencing showing the straight sword/saber. It is for mounted use only as far as I can see. Here cutting makes no sense, but if you have to use it on foot? In early rapier manuscripts I think I see fighters holding the rapier without finger over the quillon. And heavy military rapiers weight also 3 lb and more (the Christus Imperat for a repro). Is the Patton saber a rapier? Or are both swords? Questions! Who am I, where do I go, is there a beer?
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 22, 2018 10:09:49 GMT
I downloaded the Patton Saber Exercise Manual 1914 for "SABER" (tataaa! :) ) fencing showing the straight sword/saber. It is for mounted use only as far as I can see. Here cutting makes no sense, but if you have to use it on foot? In early rapier manuscripts I think I see fighters holding the rapier without finger over the quillon. And heavy military rapiers weight also 3 lb and more (the Christus Imperat for a repro). Is the Patton saber a rapier? Or are both swords? Questions! Who am I, where do I go, is there a beer? :D IN THEORY, use of the point is more effective in generating wounds, optimising reach and taking advantage of swordsmen used to cutting and not well trained to respond to point play. In situation where you are knee to knee with an enemy, point play with a 36 inch blade just don't work. The sword manual of Cpt Richard Burton is a very nice military system. So is Hutton. Rapiers mean many things. Purist rapiers of the non military character were stabby pokey affairs without much blade. Cut and thrust swords coexisted through the 18th century, having 36ish x 1.12 inch double sided blades. "Epee Forte". I don't see the Patton as a Rapier. Patton was French trained at Samur Cavalry School. The Patton is an homage to the HC sword. A perfect sword, issued after the age of the sword was nearly extinguished. US Cav took their swords to pursue Pancho Villa. Never took them off the trains....
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Post by bluetrain on Oct 22, 2018 10:54:04 GMT
By the time the Patton saber came along, neither the Americans nor the British cavalry carried swords on foot (Officers did, though, for ceremonies). It remained attached to the saddle. There are photos of British cavalrymen parading with drawn swords on foot but the scabbard was not attached to the belt. The Household Cavalry had their own ways of doing things, of course. For line cavalry, in the few instances where full dress is still used, for parade markers, color parties and so on, they may or may not have a scabbard when they have a drawn sword. Photos show both. Different regiments and corps have their own rules about such things, but apparently are sometimes ignored, judging from the admonitions in published standing orders. Who reads the regulations anyway?
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pgandy
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Posts: 10,296
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Post by pgandy on Oct 22, 2018 14:46:22 GMT
Who reads the regulations anyway? As the regiment’s S3 the library fell to my responsibility. To answer your question, unfortunately a pathetic few, which is unfortunate as there is a wealth of information in those FMs.
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