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Post by billy02 on Oct 11, 2018 5:44:41 GMT
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 11, 2018 7:33:34 GMT
Billy, nobody has ever been confused as to which of two swords is a rapier or sabre.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Oct 11, 2018 7:49:40 GMT
Nope.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 11, 2018 17:12:04 GMT
The sabre was actually an earlier sword, for instance the Byzantine parmerion. As well as this, I wouldn't regard the sabre as having a unique purpose or way of use. A broadsword or backsword can fill the same role, as well as a light pallasch.
The sabre also saw use with infantry, and later period sabres also saw use as dress or court swords. The rapier was also not only a civilians swords, and saw some use in warfare though not as much as it saw use in civilian life.
A better article would be rapier vs smallsword vs spadroon.
Rapiers weren't especially light swords. You can't have a 38 - 45 inch long fighting blade with a complex hilt and have it be light.
Light blade, no. One handed design being a weakness? I don't think so at all. Humble parrying strength? If you try to parry with the weak of the blade sure, but doing that with any sword will make a weak parry.
Heavy blade limiting speed? Out of the myriad of sabres I've owned only one original that I would describe as heavy in a negative light. Reach depends on the sword. I have had sabres with blades ranging from 26 to 36 inches long. Where are you getting this lack of party strength? It's nonsense in a generalization.
No, most of the weight came from the blade and hilt.
Good enough stats for perhaps the average infantry sabre, but you can't generalize all sabres as being a 32 inch blade weighing 2.25 pounds. The sabres I've owned range from 26 to 36 inches and anywhere from only slightly over a pound to 2.5 pounds.
You'd have to be within punching distance to grab the blade near the hilt and that distance you should just grab the hilt. It makes little sense to only sharpen the base of the blade when the latter half is what need a to be sharp in order to effectively perform push/draw cuts and make thrusting easily.
The guard does not ensure a secure grip. A massy pommel, firstly massy is not a word, and secondly this all depends on the rapier in question. Most rapier pommels were somewhat heavy, but they varied in weight and size, as well as in design.
Not all sabres have backstraps, and the backstrap on a grip does not dictate the way one holds a grip. That lays in the grip shape and length. For instance, a sabre with a backstrap I have is suited most definitely for the hammer grip and not much else, whilst another with a backstrap is suited for the thumb up grip and feels poor in the hammer grip.
No, the rapier is best suited for thrusting due to the blade being straight and narrow. It's the hilt in conjunction with the grip, not just the grip that allows one to easily wield a sword. The ease of which one can defeat an opponent lays not only in the reach of his blade, but his skill and the weapon and skill of his opponent as well.
Where are you getting this lack of parrying ability? The dagger was not used in conjunction with the rapier to make up for a lack of parrying ability, but to add another layer of offense/defense.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Oct 12, 2018 1:34:24 GMT
While I have little faith in leyman sword knowledge and could totally believe someone could confuse the two, I think a Wikipedia search would probably turn up more accurate information. A lot of these claims are vague, misled, or out right wrong. Also, this probably isn't the audience if you actually care about educating people. If someone cares enough about swords enough to find this site and make an account, its hard to imagine they don't know at least the gist of what categorizes a rapier or a saber.....then again this whole article does link to a site that sells chinese swords soooooooooooo I can guess the real intent.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Oct 12, 2018 10:56:29 GMT
I was never confused with the two and with all due respect I find the related article as full of errors as the one involving cutlasses, if not more. So far you have demonstrated SwordsSwords.com is a good site to avoid as it’s full of misinformation.
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Post by MOK on Oct 12, 2018 20:47:25 GMT
Here's a much better discussion on this exact topic...
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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 13, 2018 2:52:44 GMT
B-but, massy is a word... www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/massyThe guard does not ensure a secure grip. A massy pommel, firstly massy is not a word, and secondly this all depends on the rapier in question. Most rapier pommels were somewhat heavy, but they varied in weight and size, as well as in design.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 13, 2018 3:01:31 GMT
B-but, massy is a word... www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/massyThe guard does not ensure a secure grip. A massy pommel, firstly massy is not a word, and secondly this all depends on the rapier in question. Most rapier pommels were somewhat heavy, but they varied in weight and size, as well as in design. NOOOOO Edit: but I will maintain it not only doesn't sound like a word, but sounds bad especially when thrown in an article that has really poor writing. As a side note, I had a friend who was on the heavier side that had the last name massy. Heh heh
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Post by legacyofthesword on Oct 13, 2018 3:39:39 GMT
NOOOOO Edit: but I will maintain it not only doesn't sound like a word, but sounds bad especially when thrown in an article that has really poor writing. As a side note, I had a friend who was on the heavier side that had the last name massy. Heh heh Haha, it's an old archaic word that definitely sounds fake. Especially, as you say, in an article that contains multiple factual and spelling errors. And I just had to go and be that guy, lol.
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Post by Dalin Caulder on Oct 20, 2018 14:21:27 GMT
I'm not sure how anybody could confuse the two. Jordan corrects a lot of stuff in that link. Even RPG guys (I used to be one) have an inkling of the difference between sabre and Rapier (even if that info is misguided
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 20, 2018 15:40:25 GMT
You think it's clear and then you see a 1908 or 1913 Patton...
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 20, 2018 16:42:04 GMT
You think it's clear and then you see a 1908 or 1913 Patton... That is called I believe a "sword"
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 20, 2018 16:47:43 GMT
"Sapier"?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Oct 20, 2018 17:31:32 GMT
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Post by Dave Kelly on Oct 20, 2018 19:00:25 GMT
You think it's clear and then you see a 1908 or 1913 Patton... B-| Easy peesie: a 1913 is akin to an epee forte/pallasche. The 1908 is of the liverpudlian "wahsat" class.
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Post by bluetrain on Oct 20, 2018 19:27:24 GMT
Under the heading of for what it's worth, regarding blade length, most current U.S. pattern swords are available in different blade lengths to suit the wearer (or rather, the buyer), varying by as much as ten inches. Some swords with curved blades are still termed swords, others, sabers. Can't afford one anyway.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Oct 20, 2018 19:29:49 GMT
The Patton sword wasn't too novel, heavy cavalry in the 1600s carried a sort of one handed estoc, with a guard like a saber and a long straight Spike with no edge for the blade. You can even argue Napoleonic curassier swords are closely related. Granted thy have an edge, but they share a very similar profile, role, and they were mostly used to give point during the charge.
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Post by bluetrain on Oct 20, 2018 23:15:07 GMT
I agree with you in that the Patton sword was not particularly novel or unique, although it was certainly different from the preceding standard issue cavalry saber. It might have had a heavier hilt than older model straight-bladed cavalry swords but that's just a guess. I once owned, about 40 years ago, a Patton sword. I didn't have much experience with swords then and I thought it was fairly heavy, maybe even heavy enough (in the blade) in inflict a serious cut, though hardly enough to sever a limb. But I've never handled any of the older models or any similar contemporary swords, so my basis for comparison is next to nonexistent. It was certainly a stout, well-made sword, although the finish was rather basic. The scabbard was certainly novel.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Oct 21, 2018 1:47:14 GMT
The 1913 Patton is often called "Patton Saber". I know "saber" isn't really the right term for those swords/palasches/degen. I just ordered the Windlass and let it sharpen. I want to see how much "rapieresque" it is.
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