tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
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Post by tonystark on Nov 1, 2018 1:49:22 GMT
Well he didn’t say “survive,” he said “kept coming” which means something a lot more unbelievable than simply “surviving.” That’s exactly why I’d like to see such a grand statement in writing. Well...this IS Halloween, so I'll give swallowing a cylinder of .357s to Michael Myers. I heard the various police agencies over the years just loved those 125 grainers, and thought they were mighty effective at dropping creeps (not necessarily dead, but incapacitated) in their tracks. Okay well if it was Mike Myers than hell yes he’d get right back up and continue chasing me, giant knife in hand! Oh yeah, they used to straight out call the .357 mag “man stopper” rounds. I know it doesn’t have the same fps velocity or energy that the magnum round does, but I really like the .357 Sig for a carry round (provided over penetration isn’t a concern).
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 1, 2018 2:38:53 GMT
Mine is 3, turning 4. Yeah lots of pictures. I already have 2 external HDs with 1 TB of pics and videos of her and her younger sister. She's going to school inside our gated village though so it's relatively safe, and there's a bodyguard with her. Rainy season is half the year, though quite unpredictable. I can wear big guns with a jacket, but it can get hot really quickly and I'd rather not spend the whole day in agony from the heat. That's why I keep looking for that one gun that will satisfy the shootability-capacity-concealability triangle. I think the p365 is going to be that gun, but I just dropped by the gun store not 2 hours ago and they're still not in stock. I might just go for a Gen 5 Glock 26 in the meantime, and just carry the 380 1911 with the kids - at least that one has a manual safety. I've been able to carry a full sized 1911 before but it's problematic for guarded places like malls since if they find out, they'll make you deposit your firearm in their security office (which is normally deep in the basement). Ankle holsters... not my cup of tea. I find them equally difficult to reach (compared to bag carry) and irritating to wear. As for blades... I carry two on me at all times. An assisted folder and a fixed blade. I have a sword in the car too hahaha. Awwww so freaking adorable at that age, of course till they learn the word “no” then they’re slightly less adorable. Only kidding of course! When my daughter was born my mother asked if I knew why parents take 500,000 pictures of their kids when they are little. Of course I answered “no” cause this is my first and only child, so she said “So you can remember what they were like when they were cute and innocent.” The truth of that didn’t really sink in till my daughter turned 4 and became verbal finally. Fortunately her first word wasn’t “no,” but that fun time came a few months later 🤯 LOL I thought I took a lot of pictures, but you definitely take a lot more than I do. It’s probably because I took more when she was little and moved around less. Now I can barely get her to stand still for 10 seconds! We barely ever give her sugar, so all this energy is just her being her. Now see, I couldn’t even have a bodyguard for my daughter if she went to public school (I’d do it myself, but they don’t let parents stick around during school hours) so you must be relieved that he’s there for her during school hours? Are the gates manned as well, or are they like “portcullis” secured? Half the year? I didn’t realize it was that long! Oh right, and it’s that rainy, humid, heat too isn’t it? Ah now I see why you prefer cerakoted finishes on your guns! Makes perfect sense now. Well like I said, I hope to have my own P365 soon, and I will gladly be the guinea pig on the forum to test it out. In the meantime I saw two more positive reviews on the XDE, which supports my theory that the negative reviews were just over nitpicky stuff that has nada to do with reliability or functionality! You definitely aren’t the first person I’ve heard say all the things you said about ankle holsters, and your complaints are definitely justified, I was just trying to think of options other than shoulder holsters and off-body carry. Some people here in the states wear belly band “holsters” but I didn’t want to suggest that for two reasons: 1. If you have a suit and dress shirt on, then trying to draw from a belly band for you would be as slow as off-body carry 2. If you said screw it and wore your gun on you, but went somewhere where you might get patted down, you instantly be caught. If the guys searching you are good at their jobs, then where a belly band holster sits would be right about where they’d start patting you down. Kinda counterproductive! Okay the weird streak continues, and I have to ask WHY you carry two knives? I also carry two knives, and the reason is because when I took Kenpo during my teen years, my instructor taught me that if I was ever in a situation where someone had a gun on me, and told me to hand over everything I had, giving that person one of my two knives would pretty much guarantee that they would stop searching me for weapons, and thinking I was now “unarmed” they’d turn their attention elsewhere. That may sound a little convoluted, but the average criminal on the street isn’t going to be bright enough to wonder whether you carry more than one weapon (cause who else does that?) or not, plus he’s going to be in too much of a hurry for deep philosophical thoughts 😉 I have a Cold Steel machete, a camping hatchet, a sawed down baseball bat, and the snap-out baton from my Homeland Security days in my car. I don’t even know how a local cop would react to a sword in my trunk 😳😁 It’s amazing to be a parent, and yeah it gets harder as they age. But I wouldn’t have it any other way. Before she was born, I spent so much time and money on my hobbies: swords, games, joining/coaching law debate teams, teaching law, and everything else. Apart from being devoted to my then-fiancee now-wife. But everything changed when she was born because I had no energy for my hobbies. And at the back of my mind, I was always aware that time spent away from her was time I couldn’t get back. Of course I still kept the hobbies but the time given to them was greatly reduced. As for the two knives... one is the utility knife to open anything and everything. It’s an easy flip that gets me through the day opening envelopes, packages, and nearly everything else. The other blade is for more difficult fare, like food, or maybe a tough plastic package, and self-defense (though I’ll never admit that). Since I have some considersble knife training at least I know I can rely on something beyond my fists when inside non-permissive environments. But that idea (of lulling the guy into thinking he has all your weapons) has a lot of merit! Belly band wouldn’t work. My daily wear is basically this: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=176641022543&set=a.422422672543&type=3I wouldn’t have time to pull my shirt open and grab the gun. And my problem with 4/5 o clock carry is that’s where guards always pat you looking for a gun.
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 1, 2018 3:04:00 GMT
Oh and I found an FN509. The normal version is ₱68,,000 (around $1250), though it will likely be discounted by November 15 by maybe $200. The 509T was a whopping ₱135,000 though, so basically double the normal version. Don’t really think that the gun is worth that much haha. We’ll see. I’ll do a gun blog of sorts so you guys have some idea of what a gun restrictive state will eventually look like hehehe
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Post by howler on Nov 1, 2018 3:16:28 GMT
Well...this IS Halloween, so I'll give swallowing a cylinder of .357s to Michael Myers. I heard the various police agencies over the years just loved those 125 grainers, and thought they were mighty effective at dropping creeps (not necessarily dead, but incapacitated) in their tracks. Okay well if it was Mike Myers than hell yes he’d get right back up and continue chasing me, giant knife in hand! Oh yeah, they used to straight out call the .357 mag “man stopper” rounds. I know it doesn’t have the same fps velocity or energy that the magnum round does, but I really like the .357 Sig for a carry round (provided over penetration isn’t a concern). Those sigs can smoke...err...don't smoke sigs...you get the point, as they thump.
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 1, 2018 10:55:05 GMT
I suppose we all envision different self-defense scenarios, ranging from being attacked on the street in a bad part of town at 1:00 AM to fighting off a mountain lion but generally speaking, I don't see a super fast draw being one of my requirements. That said, I do know that certain carries can be super slow and that isn't a Good Thing. Few encounters are likely to be walk-and-draw situations and it would be foolish to try to out draw someone who had the drop on you. Some of the old timers could do that, although I've never read of it ever happening in a real situation.
A few writers long ago might mention some really clever and sometimes slightly bizarre carry methods, as well as things like having your coat especially tailored to aid in concealment. I haven't read anything like that recently but maybe I'm behind in the current literature. One common method I haven't tried is a shoulder holster and even that is three or four different styles. But one should be open-minded in these matters.
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Post by reynolds on Nov 1, 2018 15:25:31 GMT
Well he didn’t say “survive,” he said “kept coming” which means something a lot more unbelievable than simply “surviving.” That’s exactly why I’d like to see such a grand statement in writing. Well...this IS Halloween, so I'll give swallowing a cylinder of .357s to Michael Myers. I heard the various police agencies over the years just loved those 125 grainers, and thought they were mighty effective at dropping creeps (not necessarily dead, but incapacitated) in their tracks. there's documented cases of center chest, all pellet blasts of buckshot not stopping men for several seconds. Ditto 8mm, 308, 3006 ball, 7.7 Japanese torso hits and guys kept fighting until they bled out. All you have to do, if you want real world cites, is contact Massaad ayoob and ask for some. A 90% load still fails 1 time in ten and hundreds of people were shot with the 125 gr 357 jacket load, so dozens of them were failures. you can blow apart the heart and the brain still has 4-5 seconds worth of oxygenated blood in it. The gun can charge 30 yds in that time, or fire 20 shots.
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Post by reynolds on Nov 1, 2018 15:26:21 GMT
just cause you're ignorant of a given thing does NOT mean that thing doesn't exist. It just proves that you're ignorant, that's all.
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Post by howler on Nov 1, 2018 19:12:34 GMT
Well...this IS Halloween, so I'll give swallowing a cylinder of .357s to Michael Myers. I heard the various police agencies over the years just loved those 125 grainers, and thought they were mighty effective at dropping creeps (not necessarily dead, but incapacitated) in their tracks. there's documented cases of center chest, all pellet blasts of buckshot not stopping men for several seconds. Ditto 8mm, 308, 3006 ball, 7.7 Japanese torso hits and guys kept fighting until they bled out. All you have to do, if you want real world cites, is contact Massaad ayoob and ask for some. A 90% load still fails 1 time in ten and hundreds of people were shot with the 125 gr 357 jacket load, so dozens of them were failures. you can blow apart the heart and the brain still has 4-5 seconds worth of oxygenated blood in it. The gun can charge 30 yds in that time, or fire 20 shots. I'm a strong believer in using the most effective load you can handle, so your preaching to the choir, as there is no magic bullet/one shot stopper and I believe in repeatedly pulling the trigger until the threat is "stopped". Whether mythological, strange but true, man bites dog, one in a million, whatever...you have to assume, in a life or death struggle, that your dealing with a hybrid of Chuck Norris & Clint Eastwood. Forget Michael Myers, as you would have to use an RPG and he'd still come back.
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Post by bluetrain on Nov 1, 2018 19:26:53 GMT
I think the biggest disadvantage most people would have is the reluctance to kill someone. But apparently, many do not have that handicap. To say "stop" instead of kill (or "harvest") is a euphemism.
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Post by reynolds on Nov 1, 2018 23:28:07 GMT
it takes TIME for the average cop to get 6 good hits with a 357, especially, as in a reload and 10 second seconds or more. Far more likely is 4 misses, one shoulder or limb hit and maybe one gut hit, meanwhile the bad guy fires 12 rds at you. It only takes ONE bullet to kill or maim you for life, hit your loved one, etc. The attacker can get by just fine with a .22lr autoloader. You can not. You have to stop him immediately, while it's irrelevant to him that it took hours to stop you, but that .22 to your spine or knee ruined your life. he gets to start first, pick his time, place and victim. You have to come from behind. He doesn't care about hitting others, you MUST care. His loved ones are not present, yours very well may be. Even if you do stop him in time, you may end up divorced, lose your kids,etc, cause your wife can't stand what you've done to save her and the kids.
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Post by howler on Nov 2, 2018 0:33:30 GMT
I think the biggest disadvantage most people would have is the reluctance to kill someone. But apparently, many do not have that handicap. To say "stop" instead of kill (or "harvest") is a euphemism. Killing is not (nor should it be) the goal, but one must (obviously) assume that a high possibility. Everybody on this forum knows (or should know) the difference between "stop" and "kill" regarding this subject (defensive use of firearms). Hopefully, brandishment, the mere threat of firearm usage, a discharge that misses, etc...would be sufficient, but if I legally shot at and hit a criminal and they were no longer a threat (through ideally quick incapacitation), I would hope (legally, morally, religiously, etc...) that they didn't die. Most people are instinctively reluctant to kill, and loss of life is always regrettable.
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Post by howler on Nov 2, 2018 0:39:05 GMT
it takes TIME for the average cop to get 6 good hits with a 357, especially, as in a reload and 10 second seconds or more. Far more likely is 4 misses, one shoulder or limb hit and maybe one gut hit, meanwhile the bad guy fires 12 rds at you. It only takes ONE bullet to kill or maim you for life, hit your loved one, etc. The attacker can get by just fine with a .22lr autoloader. You can not. You have to stop him immediately, while it's irrelevant to him that it took hours to stop you, but that .22 to your spine or knee ruined your life. he gets to start first, pick his time, place and victim. You have to come from behind. He doesn't care about hitting others, you MUST care. His loved ones are not present, yours very well may be. Even if you do stop him in time, you may end up divorced, lose your kids,etc, cause your wife can't stand what you've done to save her and the kids. Even Jerry Miculek can't shoot like Jerry Miculek when shot at, and getting punched in the face has killed many, not only by the punch, but the slamming of the skull into the ground (cerebral hematoma).
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Post by reynolds on Nov 2, 2018 16:18:21 GMT
crap usually starts at 5-6 ft and the guy is UPON you in half a second, the only possible GUN defense is if you've got your hand in your pocket, already on your gun and your other hand is ready to block/push them off as you draw and gut-shoot them.
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tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
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Post by tonystark on Nov 3, 2018 1:50:49 GMT
Awwww so freaking adorable at that age, of course till they learn the word “no” then they’re slightly less adorable. Only kidding of course! When my daughter was born my mother asked if I knew why parents take 500,000 pictures of their kids when they are little. Of course I answered “no” cause this is my first and only child, so she said “So you can remember what they were like when they were cute and innocent.” The truth of that didn’t really sink in till my daughter turned 4 and became verbal finally. Fortunately her first word wasn’t “no,” but that fun time came a few months later 🤯 LOL I thought I took a lot of pictures, but you definitely take a lot more than I do. It’s probably because I took more when she was little and moved around less. Now I can barely get her to stand still for 10 seconds! We barely ever give her sugar, so all this energy is just her being her. Now see, I couldn’t even have a bodyguard for my daughter if she went to public school (I’d do it myself, but they don’t let parents stick around during school hours) so you must be relieved that he’s there for her during school hours? Are the gates manned as well, or are they like “portcullis” secured? Half the year? I didn’t realize it was that long! Oh right, and it’s that rainy, humid, heat too isn’t it? Ah now I see why you prefer cerakoted finishes on your guns! Makes perfect sense now. Well like I said, I hope to have my own P365 soon, and I will gladly be the guinea pig on the forum to test it out. In the meantime I saw two more positive reviews on the XDE, which supports my theory that the negative reviews were just over nitpicky stuff that has nada to do with reliability or functionality! You definitely aren’t the first person I’ve heard say all the things you said about ankle holsters, and your complaints are definitely justified, I was just trying to think of options other than shoulder holsters and off-body carry. Some people here in the states wear belly band “holsters” but I didn’t want to suggest that for two reasons: 1. If you have a suit and dress shirt on, then trying to draw from a belly band for you would be as slow as off-body carry 2. If you said screw it and wore your gun on you, but went somewhere where you might get patted down, you instantly be caught. If the guys searching you are good at their jobs, then where a belly band holster sits would be right about where they’d start patting you down. Kinda counterproductive! Okay the weird streak continues, and I have to ask WHY you carry two knives? I also carry two knives, and the reason is because when I took Kenpo during my teen years, my instructor taught me that if I was ever in a situation where someone had a gun on me, and told me to hand over everything I had, giving that person one of my two knives would pretty much guarantee that they would stop searching me for weapons, and thinking I was now “unarmed” they’d turn their attention elsewhere. That may sound a little convoluted, but the average criminal on the street isn’t going to be bright enough to wonder whether you carry more than one weapon (cause who else does that?) or not, plus he’s going to be in too much of a hurry for deep philosophical thoughts 😉 I have a Cold Steel machete, a camping hatchet, a sawed down baseball bat, and the snap-out baton from my Homeland Security days in my car. I don’t even know how a local cop would react to a sword in my trunk 😳😁. It’s amazing to be a parent, and yeah it gets harder as they age. But I wouldn’t have it any other way. Before she was born, I spent so much time and money on my hobbies: swords, games, joining/coaching law debate teams, teaching law, and everything else. Apart from being devoted to my then-fiancee now-wife. But everything changed when she was born because I had no energy for my hobbies. And at the back of my mind, I was always aware that time spent away from her was time I couldn’t get back. Of course I still kept the hobbies but the time given to them was greatly reduced. As for the two knives... one is the utility knife to open anything and everything. It’s an easy flip that gets me through the day opening envelopes, packages, and nearly everything else. The other blade is for more difficult fare, like food, or maybe a tough plastic package, and self-defense (though I’ll never admit that). Since I have some considersble knife training at least I know I can rely on something beyond my fists when inside non-permissive environments. But that idea (of lulling the guy into thinking he has all your weapons) has a lot of merit! Belly band wouldn’t work. My daily wear is basically this: www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=176641022543&set=a.422422672543&type=3I wouldn’t have time to pull my shirt open and grab the gun. And my problem with 4/5 o clock carry is that’s where guards always pat you looking for a gun. It’s definitely an adventure being a parent alright! I totally and completely concur, I wouldn’t want things any other way. Maybe without the hardships for my little hellion, but they happen throughout life in one form or another. Part of the reason I had to sell off as many of my swords as I had to was because Speech & Occupational Therapy isn’t inexpensive, and I’m looking to move soon, so I had to sacrifice some of the stuff that took up the most room. I also can’t get to the range as much anymore, and aside from my Active Shooter Response course at the Sig Sauer Academy, my Law Enforcement portfolio has taken a big hit. I had to pass up a position on the NH State Police and I had a chance to be a Corrections Officer (Sergeant rank) right when my wife and I decided to homeschool our daughter. So I have years of Armed Security and Executive Security experience, graduated from the Police Academy, have my Associates degree in Criminal Justice, and have been taken several Law Enforcement training courses (like the above mentioned Active Shooter Response course) that as of right now aren’t doing me much good. I’ know that right now all that training and years of preparing for a career in LE are on hold, but there’s nothing I wouldn’t do for my little girl. You’re right, having a kid/kids changes the dynamic of everything! The way you carry two knives is something I’ve seen a few guys do. One knife that they beat on and do all the “tough” cutting with, and the nicer, more expensive knife that they use for defensive purposes.....or not 😉 Anyone that has any hand-to-hand or knife training knows never to try knife fighting with ANYONE trained in the Philippines!! I would repeat that good advice to anyone in the US who thinks they’re good with a blade. I had a feeling the belly band holster wouldn’t work at all, just knowing that you dress nice for work. Training for Executive Security and Protection involves wearing a suit, tie, and dress shirt as well, so believe me, I get it when you say that a shoulder holster seems like the best way to go for you. Wearing soft body armor under the dress shirt and t-shirt doesn’t improve your mobility either!! That link didn’t work by the way. I assume it was a well dressed picture of you?
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tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
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Post by tonystark on Nov 3, 2018 1:59:29 GMT
Oh and I found an FN509. The normal version is ₱68,,000 (around $1250), though it will likely be discounted by November 15 by maybe $200. The 509T was a whopping ₱135,000 though, so basically double the normal version. Don’t really think that the gun is worth that much haha. We’ll see. I’ll do a gun blog of sorts so you guys have some idea of what a gun restrictive state will eventually look like hehehe Friggin’ A that’s a lot of $$$ Yeah the 509T is about $850-$900 here, so I can see why you’d go with other options. Eventually look like? Not every state is gonna fall under the weight of anti-gun laws! Besides, in some states where AR-15’s were supposed to have been turned over to the local police, or are considered “banned,” the local police don’t have the nerve, or the manpower to go collect rifles from well armed citizenry. In fact in several cities down south the police are telling politicians “YOU go door-to-door and try to take legal guns away from law abiding people!” So far no takers have come forward 😁
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tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
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Post by tonystark on Nov 3, 2018 2:01:34 GMT
Okay well if it was Mike Myers than hell yes he’d get right back up and continue chasing me, giant knife in hand! Oh yeah, they used to straight out call the .357 mag “man stopper” rounds. I know it doesn’t have the same fps velocity or energy that the magnum round does, but I really like the .357 Sig for a carry round (provided over penetration isn’t a concern). Those sigs can smoke...err...don't smoke sigs...you get the point, as they thump. Point well received! LOL I really like my Sig P320, so I can at least vouch for that one.
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tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
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Post by tonystark on Nov 3, 2018 2:21:26 GMT
Well...this IS Halloween, so I'll give swallowing a cylinder of .357s to Michael Myers. I heard the various police agencies over the years just loved those 125 grainers, and thought they were mighty effective at dropping creeps (not necessarily dead, but incapacitated) in their tracks. there's documented cases of center chest, all pellet blasts of buckshot not stopping men for several seconds. Ditto 8mm, 308, 3006 ball, 7.7 Japanese torso hits and guys kept fighting until they bled out. All you have to do, if you want real world cites, is contact Massaad ayoob and ask for some. A 90% load still fails 1 time in ten and hundreds of people were shot with the 125 gr 357 jacket load, so dozens of them were failures. you can blow apart the heart and the brain still has 4-5 seconds worth of oxygenated blood in it. The gun can charge 30 yds in that time, or fire 20 shots. Well all I asked for is 1 documented case of a single person surviving 6 torso shots of .357 Mag JHP’s. I already did my research on it, and there are zero cases of an individual surviving, or as you put it “kept on coming.” Having been through the Police Academy already I know Mr. Ayoob’s writings very, very, well. He would never make a claim like you did, and any stories he does share with his classes are stories that can be verified. In fact, if you do know his material you’d know that he doesn’t say a word that can’t be corroborated. For legal reasons of course, but still.
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tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
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Post by tonystark on Nov 3, 2018 2:35:12 GMT
I think the biggest disadvantage most people would have is the reluctance to kill someone. But apparently, many do not have that handicap. To say "stop" instead of kill (or "harvest") is a euphemism. Killing is not (nor should it be) the goal, but one must (obviously) assume that a high possibility. Everybody on this forum knows (or should know) the difference between "stop" and "kill" regarding this subject (defensive use of firearms). Hopefully, brandishment, the mere threat of firearm usage, a discharge that misses, etc...would be sufficient, but if I legally shot at and hit a criminal and they were no longer a threat (through ideally quick incapacitation), I would hope (legally, morally, religiously, etc...) that they didn't die. Most people are instinctively reluctant to kill, and loss of life is always regrettable. Unfortunately brandishing a firearm or discharging a “warning shot” has gotten gun owners criminal charges before. That is not a recommended action to take according to 2nd Amendment supportive lawyers. That may not be the case in every state, but in some states showing (even potential criminals) your gun, or “brandishing,” to people around you can get you arrested. Also anyone who carries a firearm for self defense, and is not willing to take a life in that defense, really shouldn’t be carrying it for defense.
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tonystark
Member
“I told you, I don’t want to join your super secret boy band!”
Posts: 816
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Post by tonystark on Nov 3, 2018 2:40:31 GMT
it takes TIME for the average cop to get 6 good hits with a 357, especially, as in a reload and 10 second seconds or more. Far more likely is 4 misses, one shoulder or limb hit and maybe one gut hit, meanwhile the bad guy fires 12 rds at you. It only takes ONE bullet to kill or maim you for life, hit your loved one, etc. The attacker can get by just fine with a .22lr autoloader. You can not. You have to stop him immediately, while it's irrelevant to him that it took hours to stop you, but that .22 to your spine or knee ruined your life. he gets to start first, pick his time, place and victim. You have to come from behind. He doesn't care about hitting others, you MUST care. His loved ones are not present, yours very well may be. Even if you do stop him in time, you may end up divorced, lose your kids,etc, cause your wife can't stand what you've done to save her and the kids. Even Jerry Miculek can't shoot like Jerry Miculek when shot at, and getting punched in the face has killed many, not only by the punch, but the slamming of the skull into the ground (cerebral hematoma). howler- Look up the “21 Foot Rule” or The Tueller Drill, and you can see how Police are trained.
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Post by howler on Nov 3, 2018 3:27:41 GMT
Killing is not (nor should it be) the goal, but one must (obviously) assume that a high possibility. Everybody on this forum knows (or should know) the difference between "stop" and "kill" regarding this subject (defensive use of firearms). Hopefully, brandishment, the mere threat of firearm usage, a discharge that misses, etc...would be sufficient, but if I legally shot at and hit a criminal and they were no longer a threat (through ideally quick incapacitation), I would hope (legally, morally, religiously, etc...) that they didn't die. Most people are instinctively reluctant to kill, and loss of life is always regrettable. Unfortunately brandishing a firearm or discharging a “warning shot” has gotten gun owners criminal charges before. That is not a recommended action to take according to 2nd Amendment supportive lawyers. That may not be the case in every state, but in some states showing (even potential criminals) your gun, or “brandishing,” to people around you can get you arrested. Also anyone who carries a firearm for self defense, and is not willing to take a life in that defense, really shouldn’t be carrying it for defense. I agree. I was referring to a "shot that misses" (probably meaning that I'm a poor shot ), not a warning shot, as that can be construed as illegal. You can certainly brandish in your own home (under appropriate conditions, of course, but you would want to call it in to the authorities after the incident. If you pull it in public, you better REALLY have a good reason, baby. Shooting to injure...under special circumstances, maybe.
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