Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 15, 2018 10:25:25 GMT
An illegal weapon, or even any lawful object carried with intent (aside from owning permits to carry such) will be met with the same parameters in the view of the law. Confiscation, arrest, prosecution; all three are possibilities when wearing or carrying any knife or perceived weapon. I'll say. My lawyer is currently working on my case. Thanks to all the advice people in this forum gave me, I might be able to keep my record clear
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 11:07:07 GMT
Not to forget your locking tape measure. Combination garrote, flail and urumi
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 15, 2018 12:15:26 GMT
I might wanna carry a mini mace. A wickedly weighted stick. I was always a sword guy, but I am starting to see the merit of bludgeons, especially after my knee cap has been busted again by goons
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Post by bluetrain on Sept 15, 2018 13:00:52 GMT
I don't care for pocket carry of much of anything, at least the front pocket. Rear pocket is another story and that's where you might carry your wallet. I joke about drawing a gun as easily as you pull your wallet out of your pocket (especially in a gun shop). But seriously, though, the idea is that pulling anything out needs to be smooth and "natural." I suppose practice is the key. Once upon a time, hip pocket holsters used to be available, back when men's pants were cut fuller and presumably had bigger pockets. There were also regular pocket holsters, which still enjoy some popularity.
The knives I have that might be suitable for the purpose being discussed are problematic as far as carrying them concealed goes. I'm only speaking of my own particular knives, though. The larger and more practical ones are that much more difficult to conceal but they aren't fighting knives but general hunting and utility knives. It suggests that a specialized knife is in order.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 15, 2018 13:12:15 GMT
The issue you can run into when carrying a specialty knife is fact that it won't be the kind of knife you need at the time you need to use a knife. For example, if you are carrying a "self defense" fixed blade fighting kife, but suddenly find yourself needing to cut a tag off an article of clothing while out shopping with the wife- that knife would raise eybrows and generally not be good for the task. In reverse, if you are out shopping and are carrying a peanut folder for cutting strings and tags, but suddenly find yourself surrounded by thugs- again, not suited to the task.
I feel that it's more complex than simply carrying a knife that presumably can handle any "situation" you are in at the time. Rather it's more about knowing the capabilities of the knife you are carrying at the time and using it accordingly when the time comes.
But I am very fortunate to live in a place where everybody carries some kind of knife (spyderco is the most popular brand) and nobody bats an eye when you pull one out to do some small task with. Cops don't even care as long as you aren't threatening anybody with it- besides, they carry guns so why worry about a guy bringing a knife to a gunfight? Knife crime in general is unheard of so nobody is on edge about it.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Sept 15, 2018 15:39:59 GMT
Not to forget your locking tape measure. Combination garrote, flail and urumi TRIGGERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Sept 15, 2018 15:50:55 GMT
I might wanna carry a mini mace. A wickedly weighted stick. I was always a sword guy, but I am starting to see the merit of bludgeons, especially after my knee cap has been busted again by goons I think, that for legal reasons you might consider staying away from anything which can be considered an obvious weapon. Having a clearly weaponized bludgeon may be problematic in a place like Canada (like a stick with an obvious metal bludgeon, or a concealed blade). Keeping that in mind, I recommend something like one of these: Heavy Cane - Hickory with Oak PommelCrook Cane - Hickory Wide Crook
They are heavy hickory canes, but they are all wood and not obviously weaponized. I would also consider purchasing an inexpensive knee brace. Wearing a piece of supportive medical equipment helps justify the cane in public spaces. Those are my thoughts on this anyway.
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Post by bluetrain on Sept 15, 2018 16:05:02 GMT
Knife crime, as you put it, is anything but unheard of where I live. That is, if you count stabbings. But as regards specialty knives, as I put it, there is no suggestion that you are limited to one an only knife. If you find yourself requiring a knife for general purposes, a small pocket knife is probably enough if you live in town, which is where we're talking about anyway.
My choice for a pocket knife is a small Buck knife with a blade of 1 1/2-inch blade. I think it's called a Bucklite. I don't seem to find myself cutting things outside of the house but it's what I carry--sometimes.
An interesting thing is how for the most part, both fighting knives and techniques have varied but little over the last few centuries. There have always been exceptions, notably the Bowie knife and the like. The thing is, I think, that when there have been times when serious knife and hand-to-hand fighting would occurred with some assurance, the art of knife fighting had to almost be rediscovered. That's true of a few other war arts, too, all of which seem to have almost looked down upon by regular military men.
It makes me wonder it...well, I should start another thread for that.
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 15, 2018 16:06:39 GMT
What I meant was knives have to clear their carrier. Sheath, pocket, boot, whatever. A small knife has less too clear, a honkin' big ol' bowie has more. More to clear means more to snag in a panic scenario, and generally a wider movement, which in general use would draw attention you don't want if you're just trimming a tag or loose string.
Which is why I carry multiple options. My more civilized (less threatening) knives I keep in my pockets for general knife-y things like boxes, envelopes, strings, fingernails, etc. I keep a separate knife to scrape nasty things off various surfaces (you'd be surprised what winds up on a retail shelf) as the one I use to cut my food. I keep another as a backup in case one gets dull while I'm out, or if she also ordered a steak.
Then I keep the one on my belt. That one's less multi-purpose, but still looks utilitarian enough that most aren't directly intimidated by it.
I tend to change my belt knife more often than my folders, as depending on my mood, where I'm going, travel methods, etc, one may be more or less convenient. In my teenage years I kept a big bowie on my belt because...uh... Anyway, at one point I traded it for a Kabar Warthog. Didn't take long to determine that knife was pretty useless on the everyday stuff. "Downgraded" to an old Kabar 1232 my grandfather found somewhere and carried that thing for years. It taught me a lot about what I expect now from my fixed-blade EDC. Mostly, size isn't everything and can be a nuisance. When I had to retire that one (sheath wear and tear, couldn't keep an edge anymore) I got a Citadel Trapper. Much bigger and bulkier than I expected it to be, with a sheath that carries it higher than I like. Still wore it for a couple years as it was "good enough" and I figured if I got lost in the woods with it, I'd get by okay.
At some point I'd picked up a Russian knife from eBay and it arrived completely dull, to my dismay, but I bought a Lansky system and got to work and it's still got the same edge. I seldom carry it, though, as the friction fit in the sheath is...not the best. I never managed to satisfactorily sharpen the tip, either, so that's another demerit to it.
Right now I'm carrying something of a novelty, sold as a "folding bowie knife" but with a history going back at least two centuries as a hunting knife. When folded, four inches of the blade are still exposed, allowing for ease of use through more detailed operations (trimming strings etc) but opened up its full 7.5" become available to ward off the nasties if the 4" didn't.
I have three such knives, and the one I carry I carry primarily because of it's different sheath. Both of the other knives have sheaths that completely enclose the full, closed knife. You have to un-snap a flap over the top of the thing, then reach inside and pull out 8" of knife before changing your grip to one you can actually use the knife with. I carry the one with a sheath that only covers the exposed blade, leaving the handle bare, but snaps around the top so it doesn't flap around and fall out. If pressed, I can slide the strap over the top and the knife becomes free, so I don't have to fuss with the snap when fine motor skills may be challenged.
I still recommend a proper fixed blade, of medium size (4-6 inches in my opinion) as anything smaller is just a toy, but anything bigger is a nuisance more often than an aid.
Of course, many places don't allow fixed blade or sheath knives. In those places, a good folder with easy deployment that isn't one of those "tactical/LE/SF" etc gimmicks should do the trick. I prefer "gentleman's knives" for my personal carry, as most folk aren't intimidated by something they could see their grandfather carrying, but other folks have other needs.
I don't need a knife for "self-defense," so I don't carry a knife for "self-defense." Unless we're talking about defending myself from a jammed seat belt after an auto accident, which I've been fortunate enough to not embitter l encounter yet, either. Though my Trapper did fare pretty well after I landed on it coming off my motorcycle last year, so there's that.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 15, 2018 16:52:37 GMT
"Classic" knives are classic for a reason. The Buck 110, the #8 Opinel, K55K, etc have been carried by millions of people all over the world and they have proven themselves to be excellent all around knives through decades of real world use. So you can never go wrong in choosing one of those for a daily carry. I'm a bit wary of "tactical" anythings because more often than not they compensate poor design for gimmicks. The FIRST order of a knife is to be a good knife first, THEN it can do other things after it's accomplished that task.
At the end of the day, like swords and guns, it is permissible to own more than one type if you want. Since knives are tools, my thinking is that it's wise to have more than one tool available when I need it. The problem gets into these discussions when the topic turns towards a "one and only" knife that supposedly can do everything at all times (one sword to rule them all, one gun that can both EDC and survive the zombie apocalypse, etc). No such animal.
So if I were to give any advice to somebody looking for a knife, I would recommend one of the tried and true classics like you grandfather probably carried. From there, the world of knives is your oyster...
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Post by treeslicer on Sept 15, 2018 17:34:25 GMT
"Classic" knives are classic for a reason. The Buck 110, the #8 Opinel, K55K, etc have been carried by millions of people all over the world and they have proven themselves to be excellent all around knives through decades of real world use. So you can never go wrong in choosing one of those for a daily carry. I'm a bit wary of "tactical" anythings because more often than not they compensate poor design for gimmicks. The FIRST order of a knife is to be a good knife first, THEN it can do other things after it's accomplished that task. At the end of the day, like swords and guns, it is permissible to own more than one type if you want. Since knives are tools, my thinking is that it's wise to have more than one tool available when I need it. The problem gets into these discussions when the topic turns towards a "one and only" knife that supposedly can do everything at all times (one sword to rule them all, one gun that can both EDC and survive the zombie apocalypse, etc). No such animal. So if I were to give any advice to somebody looking for a knife, I would recommend one of the tried and true classics like you grandfather probably carried. From there, the world of knives is your oyster... Opinels are my favorite for a pocketknife. OTOH, I've found that a koduka is handy to carry. I mean, it fits right in that slot in my katana saya.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 15, 2018 18:17:21 GMT
I have an Opinel, and I don't like to carry it. The round handle feels like a roll of pennies in my pocket. I keep it in the armrest of the car for a back up to my back up. Knives are very personal things, and what I like somebody might hate and vice-versa. All I can say for sure is that I've spent a lot of money on knives over the years and found what I think is the best combination for me and my lifestyle. "Results may vary"
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 18:36:08 GMT
Not to forget your locking tape measure. Combination garrote, flail and urumi TRIGGERED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Does that mean you are a palomino?
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Post by howler on Sept 15, 2018 18:50:17 GMT
Speed of deployment is not necessarily a primary issue. Intent and practice are larger factors. A lady companion returned home one day disheveled and rattled. A bank employee, she had been jacked up coming out of work in a parking lot. The mugger had a screwdriver as a weapon. He was grabbing her purse but she freaked and grabbed at the screwdriver hand with both of hers. Fortunately, it wasn't a long knife blade and the mugger turned and ran as she screamed. A positive ending but it could have gone wrong in so many ways. She had reacted somewhat instinctively but had also recalled my mention of gaining control in such a situation but as much in simply discussing if she had simply been grabbed for any reason. It wasn't as much a concern for her purse as reacting to the physical threat (but she damn well wasn't going to give up the purse). A knife in a wallet is a utility item. Useful but "hey wait, let me get that out of my wallet". A perceived threat may allow deploying almost anything. I have mentioned in several threads a preference for moderately sized fixed blades (6"-8" blade) but also carried a thin four inch blade drop point in a pancake sheath in a front pants pocket. Super large knives can be accommodated in shoulder rigs under jackets or otherwise, in the field. The legal issues are a huge one and in another discussion with Djinnobi, I believe I cautioned the intent of carrying his ti-lite to avoid losing it. I'm not wanting to promote unlawful carry but if you feel one must, don't dimiss fixed blades for carry as a weapon. Fixed blades can be just as economical as a folder and hell, just like that mugger, screwdrivers are a $1.00 (or less) investment. Tsunami but in an immediately thoughtful reaction to a physical threat. Overall, I dislike adding or promoting boards such as this for even home invasion threads and concealed weapons for public carry quickly becomes a very thin line to cross in coaching illegal activities. A bottom line is going to be if you don't attract attention or present a profile of interest, no one will ever know what one has concealed (or carry in plain sight). Agreed, fixed blades sure are nice for carry if both comfortable and allowed. One piece of steel married to a handle, and a lot easier to keep clean. Naturally, the sheath is an important component.
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Post by howler on Sept 15, 2018 18:54:01 GMT
bigger knives scarier, but take longer to deploy Why would a bigger folder be slower to draw? That hasn't been my experience. In fact, I believe larger folders are even faster, as the heavier blade swings into locked positon with less effort and is easier to grab when in your pocket.
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Post by howler on Sept 15, 2018 19:03:01 GMT
I might wanna carry a mini mace. A wickedly weighted stick. I was always a sword guy, but I am starting to see the merit of bludgeons, especially after my knee cap has been busted again by goons Knee cap busted again by goons...jeez, Trap, what the heck is going on over there?
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Post by howler on Sept 15, 2018 19:08:44 GMT
Walk around with a hard hat, work boots and a loaded tool belt. Then walking down the street might not raise too many eyebrows but walk into a bank or even convenience store and that does present a profile. Act belligerent while wearing that hammer, screwdrivers and utility knife and that is a reason to be detained and possibly shot (not necessarily by the police). This reminds me of motorcycle gangs carrying ball peen hammers, clearly a potential weapon, as a "tool" for the cycle...and a way to blur the line and skirt the law. Pretty decent little club type weapon, actually.
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Post by howler on Sept 15, 2018 19:13:54 GMT
The issue you can run into when carrying a specialty knife is fact that it won't be the kind of knife you need at the time you need to use a knife. For example, if you are carrying a "self defense" fixed blade fighting kife, but suddenly find yourself needing to cut a tag off an article of clothing while out shopping with the wife- that knife would raise eybrows and generally not be good for the task. In reverse, if you are out shopping and are carrying a peanut folder for cutting strings and tags, but suddenly find yourself surrounded by thugs- again, not suited to the task. I feel that it's more complex than simply carrying a knife that presumably can handle any "situation" you are in at the time. Rather it's more about knowing the capabilities of the knife you are carrying at the time and using it accordingly when the time comes. But I am very fortunate to live in a place where everybody carries some kind of knife (spyderco is the most popular brand) and nobody bats an eye when you pull one out to do some small task with. Cops don't even care as long as you aren't threatening anybody with it- besides, they carry guns so why worry about a guy bringing a knife to a gunfight? Knife crime in general is unheard of so nobody is on edge about it. A lot of people (well, like me, for instance) will carry a tiny utility blade (often on a multi-tool) with keys and such, and a larger blade in another pocket.
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Post by howler on Sept 15, 2018 19:28:31 GMT
I might wanna carry a mini mace. A wickedly weighted stick. I was always a sword guy, but I am starting to see the merit of bludgeons, especially after my knee cap has been busted again by goons I think, that for legal reasons you might consider staying away from anything which can be considered an obvious weapon. Having a clearly weaponized bludgeon may be problematic in a place like Canada (like a stick with an obvious metal bludgeon, or a concealed blade). Keeping that in mind, I recommend something like one of these: Heavy Cane - Hickory with Oak PommelCrook Cane - Hickory Wide Crook
They are heavy hickory canes, but they are all wood and not obviously weaponized. I would also consider purchasing an inexpensive knee brace. Wearing a piece of supportive medical equipment helps justify the cane in public spaces. Those are my thoughts on this anyway. A great choice, particularly with his "goon" busted kneecap. Another thing to consider is that anything can be considered a weapon if used as such. A frozen fish smashed into someone's skull...club. If he dies...killed by frozen fish. If they find you didn't act in self defense and you end up in jail...the "frozen fish murderer" (and nobody will mess with you on cellblock, as you'd be a legend, though a little fishy).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 19:37:40 GMT
If I can just regard this first passage, as I agree with most of his post (the right tool for the job). A big honkin bowie literally falls out of a shoulder rig and sweeps up in an easy motion wherever you want to go. Similarly front or back inside a belt and pants waistband with modestly sized fixed blades. One is not getting snagged on anything and clearing the sheath simply part of the initial motion. Scoffed at, and wearing a jacket I was most often simply carrying angled at the small of the back, unsnapped and for a left hand draw. My right hand is busy. Boot carry for me was for transportation and wearing Wellington types with the pants over, not meant for a quick draw. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Regarding folders with clips, I somewhat hate them and prefer lanyards/fobs My diminutive Benchmade was a constant in the warehouses on a shirt pocket next two my rollerball. The only clip I ever really enjoyed. It's the same as a Big Spender but is ti without scales 2" blade. (stock photo, I can't find my file) My SAK Soldier (now a Pioneer) is in my car now as I bought an electric can opener but what I generally pocket if outside doing stuff. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Goldie aka AG Russell writes somewhere in his pages that the slim folding toothpicks was a favorite of someone's that would sew pockets in his boots. Gourd, that was some decades ago in discussion.
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