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Post by bluetrain on Sept 14, 2018 9:45:36 GMT
Someone here said that using a knife would be an act of desperation. I think that's assumed. A knife carried for self-defense for most people would be like carrying a .25 automatic. That's not a Jeff Cooper solution, of course, but it is a balance of risk and convenience, however you see either aspect. A real fighting knife may not be convenient to carry for a civilian, assuming you have to conceal it. But some other knives come close, the differences not being cut and dried. You've probably already looked at some, like Cold Steel's spike series.
A lot of products available on-line, including knives, have accompanying reviews from previous buyers. But reading through some of them, sometimes the reviews are so mixed that you wonder if they are reviewing the same knife. Of course, the expectation of the buyer enters into the matter.
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Post by Richard Arias on Sept 14, 2018 9:50:49 GMT
Well the scenario is accurate to defensive pistol distance. Its why I cringe whenever a professional reviewer puts a pistol on a rest and shoots 25 yards when it's a Carry pistol. I rarely practice beyond 10 yards with a pistol for defensive shooting. But replace cruises gun with a knife and just have two guys and you still get the basic gist of what I'm talking about. That scene is so stereotypical but all of my defensive engagements were very similar. Which is why I look back on all of them frustrated at how stupid the situations were. Weather I was walking home with groceries, leaving a bar with friends or coming home from work. Sometimes people will do something because they feel they can. The OP would have to have such a scenario in mind when weighing his EDC choice. Some variant of the scenario is on my mind when carrying my EDC folder or CCW pistol. Agree. Naturally, regarding movie scene for civilians (as we aren't pretending in a movie to be a professional psycho killer ;) ), the thing to do is give your wallet to the punks, as they have "the drop" on you (even if they are dumb enough to get within touching distance), and we are also talking multiple assailants. Attempting to be James Bond over material possession's is not worth your (or the bad guys) life. I agree. But I am more speaking of being outnumbered and choosing to act. Sure hand your wallet over generally. But im looking at the choice of action assuming there isn't a simple compliance demand. The scene just shows what I have seen happen and had happen to me when drilling aginst somone with skill. In my brief time in Krav Maga the two instructors at the Local school used to teach Israeli cops. And they used to move and make me look like I was stuck in mud. The thing is compliance is a risky sloap. If you look at a lot of UK statistics and other places in Europe there are a lot of brutal mugging assaults and murders. And I speak specifically to those numbers because being harder on guns these cases involve knives and bludgeons. I honestly dont preach the hand things over. Not to women specifically because of a mugging becoming a sexual assault. I had one female student pull a gun on a random hobo who was wandering around her complex when she was doing laundry. She told me he started to walk fast toward her and kept asking where she lived. And she just chose to draw. Being 5'6 and weighing 124lbs I told her she made a cautious choice. Drawing, giving the would be attacker a clear line not to cross and the option to leave is a solid course of action. I chose action over reaction. I told her that her choice was the equivalent of a rattler coiling to strike or a dog growling. Its a hard choice you have to make in a Nano Second. And you have to live with it the rest of your life. To the OP i say when you carry anything it's like when yoj drive a car. You have to take responsibility for yourself but also act and react to other people on the road. Carry and Defense is no different. Dont take either lightly.
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Zen_Hydra
Moderator
Born with a heart full of neutrality
Posts: 2,625
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Sept 14, 2018 14:07:25 GMT
I've always been of the mind that whatever knife I have on me at the time is my EDC/self-defense/survival knife. I'm of the opinion that there does NOT exist "one knife to rule them all". A knife is a tool, and a tool that tries to do everything at once does nothing well. I carry a Mercator K55K in my pocket and a higo-no-kami in my wallet. I find the Mercator to be slim enough to carry everywhere and I never feel it in my pocket. It's a good all around knife for day to day tasks like cutting rope or opening a package, or even some boredom whittling. It's good enough I can defend myself with it (in fact, it was the preferred knife of NYC gangs back in the 50's and 60's), and I could do some light survival tasks with it if the situation arises. But I have no illusions that it's a one-n-done kind of blade. I can do many things with it, but I also understand it's limitations. For a pure woodcraft survival type knife I have a Puma White Hunter. I carried it with me for almost 20 years in the Army, and I use it every time I go camping now. It's a masterful woodsman knife, but rather poor for daily carry due to it's size and blade shape. For a fighting/self-defense knife I choose one of my military style fighting knives, either NATO or Warsaw Pact design, both are just as good. No better knife for fighting with than a knife actually designed to fight with. Different knives, different purposes. And the higo in my wallet? That's just there in case I do a bonehead move and forget my carry knife. Never hurts to have a back up sharp. There are tons of knives on the market, many are excellent and will serve you well. Which one you choose is going to be a very personall decision on your part. My only advice is to buy a knife from a BRAND NAME knife maker (Case, Buck, Spyderco, etc) and avoid at all costs any blade made in China or Pakistan. Whatever knife you carry, you have to trust that it will work. And lastly, when it comes to knives, you really do get what you pay for. You carry a knife IN your wallet?! You must literally have buns of steel. Kudos. Personally, I can't handle having more than 10 assorted cards in my wallet before it becomes too uncomfortable to sit on. I guess, according to lore, that means I might be a trueborn princess.
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 14, 2018 15:33:54 GMT
Wouldn't work. Advanced technology against an angry guy? Not a chance Gotta rock it old school like Captain Kirk did against the Gorn with the improvised cannon made out of bamboo. A phaser and Borg type energy shield still wouldn't hurt. I just thru out a lot of nerd in those two sentences, didn't I. I must need a girlfriend...or an expensive knife or something. One time I had a gf and she was a pathetic self defense system
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 14, 2018 18:13:30 GMT
I find the girlfriend system to have its own pros and cons.
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Post by howler on Sept 14, 2018 19:07:19 GMT
Gotta rock it old school like Captain Kirk did against the Gorn with the improvised cannon made out of bamboo. A phaser and Borg type energy shield still wouldn't hurt. I just thru out a lot of nerd in those two sentences, didn't I. I must need a girlfriend...or an expensive knife or something. One time I had a gf and she was a pathetic self defense system Haha. Hate to imagine what the good SD system ladies would look like...Medusa?
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Post by howler on Sept 14, 2018 19:08:28 GMT
I find the girlfriend system to have its own pros and cons. Particularly when most aren't really into guns & knives.
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 14, 2018 19:15:36 GMT
I find the girlfriend system to have its own pros and cons. Particularly when most aren't really into guns & knives. Mine's forever promising to stab me, and reminds me often she has no shortage of implements; my own courtesy.
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Post by howler on Sept 14, 2018 19:17:07 GMT
Agree. Naturally, regarding movie scene for civilians (as we aren't pretending in a movie to be a professional psycho killer ), the thing to do is give your wallet to the punks, as they have "the drop" on you (even if they are dumb enough to get within touching distance), and we are also talking multiple assailants. Attempting to be James Bond over material possession's is not worth your (or the bad guys) life. I agree. But I am more speaking of being outnumbered and choosing to act. Sure hand your wallet over generally. But im looking at the choice of action assuming there isn't a simple compliance demand. The scene just shows what I have seen happen and had happen to me when drilling aginst somone with skill. In my brief time in Krav Maga the two instructors at the Local school used to teach Israeli cops. And they used to move and make me look like I was stuck in mud. The thing is compliance is a risky sloap. If you look at a lot of UK statistics and other places in Europe there are a lot of brutal mugging assaults and murders. And I speak specifically to those numbers because being harder on guns these cases involve knives and bludgeons. I honestly dont preach the hand things over. Not to women specifically because of a mugging becoming a sexual assault. I had one female student pull a gun on a random hobo who was wandering around her complex when she was doing laundry. She told me he started to walk fast toward her and kept asking where she lived. And she just chose to draw. Being 5'6 and weighing 124lbs I told her she made a cautious choice. Drawing, giving the would be attacker a clear line not to cross and the option to leave is a solid course of action. I chose action over reaction. I told her that her choice was the equivalent of a rattler coiling to strike or a dog growling. Its a hard choice you have to make in a Nano Second. And you have to live with it the rest of your life. To the OP i say when you carry anything it's like when yoj drive a car. You have to take responsibility for yourself but also act and react to other people on the road. Carry and Defense is no different. Dont take either lightly. A complicated and personal issue for sure, and it sounds like you clearly know your stuff. If someone decides to commit, it must be explosive, confident, and without hesitation, as these are life and death issues.
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Post by howler on Sept 14, 2018 19:22:32 GMT
Particularly when most aren't really into guns & knives. Mine's forever promising to stab me, and reminds me often she has no shortage of implements; my own courtesy. Oh man, your own weapons turned against you...by "the battleax". Gulp.
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Post by RufusScorpius on Sept 14, 2018 19:53:41 GMT
I've always been of the mind that whatever knife I have on me at the time is my EDC/self-defense/survival knife. I'm of the opinion that there does NOT exist "one knife to rule them all". A knife is a tool, and a tool that tries to do everything at once does nothing well. I carry a Mercator K55K in my pocket and a higo-no-kami in my wallet. I find the Mercator to be slim enough to carry everywhere and I never feel it in my pocket. ......, You carry a knife IN your wallet?! You must literally have buns of steel. Kudos. Personally, I can't handle having more than 10 assorted cards in my wallet before it becomes too uncomfortable to sit on. I guess, according to lore, that means I might be a trueborn princess. I was an Airborne soldier once. I guess I'm used to sitting on steel bench seats, ruck sacks, rocks and sticks, and any assorted number of uncomfortable surfaces. Don't even notice the higo knife- feels the same with or without it in the wallet. And the higo knife is pretty thin overall, so it fits in the seam of the wallet between the pockets- the overall thickness of the knife is roughly the same as the two pocket sides when folded together, so the wallet actually coushions the knife. Or maybe I actually do have buns of steel...
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 14, 2018 20:05:07 GMT
Particularly when most aren't really into guns & knives. Mine's forever promising to stab me, and reminds me often she has no shortage of implements; my own courtesy. I dunno if I miss getting that threat or not
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 14, 2018 23:03:39 GMT
Mine's forever promising to stab me, and reminds me often she has no shortage of implements; my own courtesy. I dunno if I miss getting that threat or not I usually turn it around and offer to penetrate her, as well. This typically gets me an eye roll and left alone for a bit... I like to believe she won't actually make good on the offer, but I figure if she does, I deserve it. Back to the thread, all important points have already been addressed. If you need to carry a knife for "defense," buy whatever you're comfortable losing inside the other guy.
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Post by howler on Sept 15, 2018 2:56:31 GMT
Ignoring legal issues, for defense, pick the largest fixed or folder your comfortable carrying and/or concealing, as a CS Natchez bowie is gonna have a colossal advantage over a Spyderco Delica, or worse, small Case Stockman with hard to open & non locking blade.
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Post by randomnobody on Sept 15, 2018 3:04:32 GMT
Oh, yeah; avoid slip joints and friction folders at all cost. If you can only carry a folder, get one no bigger than is comfortable in your pocket (bigger knives scarier, but take longer to deploy) and make sure it has a good, solid lock. I have several liner-lock knives I wouldn't trust, a few frame-lock I might, but the knives I trust most are generally weird locks that are somewhat complicated to the uninitiated...
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Sept 15, 2018 7:20:34 GMT
bigger knives scarier, but take longer to deploy Why would a bigger folder be slower to draw? That hasn't been my experience.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 9:25:18 GMT
Speed of deployment is not necessarily a primary issue. Intent and practice are larger factors.
A lady companion returned home one day disheveled and rattled. A bank employee, she had been jacked up coming out of work in a parking lot. The mugger had a screwdriver as a weapon. He was grabbing her purse but she freaked and grabbed at the screwdriver hand with both of hers. Fortunately, it wasn't a long knife blade and the mugger turned and ran as she screamed. A positive ending but it could have gone wrong in so many ways. She had reacted somewhat instinctively but had also recalled my mention of gaining control in such a situation but as much in simply discussing if she had simply been grabbed for any reason. It wasn't as much a concern for her purse as reacting to the physical threat (but she damn well wasn't going to give up the purse).
A knife in a wallet is a utility item. Useful but "hey wait, let me get that out of my wallet".
A perceived threat may allow deploying almost anything.
I have mentioned in several threads a preference for moderately sized fixed blades (6"-8" blade) but also carried a thin four inch blade drop point in a pancake sheath in a front pants pocket. Super large knives can be accommodated in shoulder rigs under jackets or otherwise, in the field.
The legal issues are a huge one and in another discussion with Djinnobi, I believe I cautioned the intent of carrying his ti-lite to avoid losing it. I'm not wanting to promote unlawful carry but if you feel one must, don't dimiss fixed blades for carry as a weapon. Fixed blades can be just as economical as a folder and hell, just like that mugger, screwdrivers are a $1.00 (or less) investment. Tsunami but in an immediately thoughtful reaction to a physical threat.
Overall, I dislike adding or promoting boards such as this for even home invasion threads and concealed weapons for public carry quickly becomes a very thin line to cross in coaching illegal activities. A bottom line is going to be if you don't attract attention or present a profile of interest, no one will ever know what one has concealed (or carry in plain sight).
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Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
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Post by Ifrit on Sept 15, 2018 9:32:29 GMT
Thanks for the advice Edel, if I followed it, I might have not lost my Ti-Lite to the authorities.
For fixed blade carry, I always like that uh... Fairbarn Skysomething knife in a leather sheath. Its perfect for jacket carry and deploys early. Just unhook the latch when you feel your situation might be risky, like a walk home or being in a sketchy area. I don't see why the windlass stiletto dagger wouldn't be any worst than that.
But if you get caught, you are effed, man. Truth be told, there is a chance the knife won't do anything to help you either. A weapon is for killing. It doesn't defend anything.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 9:52:02 GMT
An illegal weapon, or even any lawful object carried with intent (aside from owning permits to carry such) will be met with the same parameters in the view of the law. Confiscation, arrest, prosecution; all three are possibilities when wearing or carrying any knife or perceived weapon.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2018 10:04:23 GMT
Walk around with a hard hat, work boots and a loaded tool belt. Then walking down the street might not raise too many eyebrows but walk into a bank or even convenience store and that does present a profile. Act belligerent while wearing that hammer, screwdrivers and utility knife and that is a reason to be detained and possibly shot (not necessarily by the police).
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