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Post by leviathansteak on Aug 27, 2018 7:46:12 GMT
Hello!
Need some advice. Say i have a sword blade with a stalk tang and i want to put a messer style grip on it.
I can work the wood and make the grip, but i don't have the tools to drill through the tang and rivet it properly like a true messer.
Structurally, is it sufficient to epoxy a wooden grip arnd the tang so that it ks enclosed?
Will it stand up to cutting and not fly out? Will repeated exposure to sweat and oil weaken the epoxy and cause it to fail?
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Post by demonskull on Aug 27, 2018 9:56:05 GMT
Short answer- yes. Be sure your metal is clean and dry and the inside of the wood grip is sanded and wiped off of any loosed wood particles.
Use a two part epoxy and let it set the recommended time.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Aug 27, 2018 10:15:03 GMT
The epoxy might well be stronger than the wood. Done right, will be fine.
Make sure you clean all oil off the tang before you glue. If you want a little more security, you can file some grooves into the surface of the tang.
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Post by rhema1313 on Aug 28, 2018 4:49:42 GMT
As a Sword and Knife Maker I wouldn't solely trust Epoxy alone. The pins or a peened pommel is the safest way to go. Mere epoxy agains steel, even if the steel has been filed or roughed up, is not a "For Sure" adhesion. There are many factors involved before, during and after mounting the grip. Wood breathes. It expands and contracts with humidity, dryness, cold temperatures and hot temperatures. The Steal will not move. That binding of the epoxy will absorb into the wood and secure it more on the wood side than the metal. It will not absorb or truly bind to the metal. It will break away from the metal before it will break away from the wood.
Is the wood stabilized? Do you oil your blades? Oil possibly will find its way over time under the epoxy along the steel and compromise the adhesion. Epoxy can crack and break on its own over time.
The pins are the extra precaution a well as a peened tang/pommel. I WOULD NEVER SUGGEST JUST EPOXY. Not even on a wall hanger because you never know who is going to pick it up and swing it around. This is not just a humble opinion, but an educated one.
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Post by leviathansteak on Aug 28, 2018 11:03:42 GMT
Thanks for the replies! I guess the overall answer is 'yes sorta maybe good enough but preferably not'
In that case perhaps ill have the end of the tang emerge from the butt end of the grip and then peen it over a washer or something.
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on Aug 28, 2018 18:28:10 GMT
If I am reading it right and think I could what a stalk tang is epoxy will work. It's the way seax are done. If you are just doing pandles no way.
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Post by theophilus736 on Jan 30, 2019 23:22:46 GMT
Sorry to beat this long dead horse, but this is also something I'm curious about. I have a threaded tang hanger that I plan on filing the secondary bevel off of/practicing sharpening with and securing the rat tail threaded grip with some type of epoxy. I also have a Windlass with what appears to be a cold peened rod attached to about an inch or two of actual tang that I will epoxy and re-peen.
I've heard glass bedding like Acryglas can work well, and that some others have used products like JB Weld. Any further details or recommendations for what kind of epoxy to use for cold peen or threaded constructions, and if it's better to have as tight of fitting scored grip as possible or a good fit with epoxy filling out any of the space?
I'm chiefly concerned with whether epoxy could create too tight of a seal where the tang can't flex at all and simply would snap given enough force, as opposed to absorbing the forces with a well fitted but not entirely immobile construction. I'll probably sell the threaded tang LOTR Sting on here for 5 or 10 bucks + shipping once I've tested it can cut without exploding apart. Thanks!
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jan 31, 2019 1:55:52 GMT
I'm chiefly concerned with whether epoxy could create too tight of a seal where the tang can't flex at all and simply would snap given enough force, as opposed to absorbing the forces with a well fitted but not entirely immobile construction. The modulus of elasticity (i.e., Young's modulus) for epoxy is lower than that typical for wood. Epoxy is about 3-3.5GPa (synthetic polymers tend to be about 0.5-4GPa, so epoxy is not unusual), and woods tend to be about 10Gpa (and steel is about 200GPa). Therefore, epoxy won't make the tang more immobile than well-fitted wood. Epoxy will provide more resistance to the tang flexing than empty space within a poorly-fitted wooden grip, but that's poor construction. If the base of the tang is too thin to stop too much flexing at the base if the rest of the tang is well-fitted to the grip, that's also poor construction. For glued-in construction (and also other types of handle), the base of the tang should be stout. Example: (from dharesearch.bowditch.us/0023.htm which is itself from dharesearch.bowditch.us/ which is the most excellent Dha Research Archive) Glass-reinforced and carbon fibre reinforce polymers will be stiffer (glass reinforced can be 15-20GPa, and carbon fibre reinforced 50-100GPa), which can reduce flexibility of the hilt. If you're worried about that, just use an unreinforced epoxy.
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Post by theophilus736 on Jan 31, 2019 2:12:17 GMT
Yeah flexibility was and I guess is a concern. Good to know about the elasticity of an epoxy vs wood though. I suppose the place the epoxy would come in most handy is the small crevices in the odd threaded pommel construction of the Sting replica. The sword that was previously cold peened might be doable with carving. I still wonder if something to fill in some of the pits and irregular grind marks might not be a good idea for it though.
Thanks!
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