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Post by treeslicer on Aug 9, 2018 14:38:27 GMT
Another note to add, you can also get relatively decent katana with an “unsightly” (but not fatal) flaw in those price points. Fukure are good to look for as they bring the prices WAY down because collectors often avoid fukure. Andy has a kanbun example (1660’s) of such: www.nihonto.us/TERUKADO%20-YOSHISADA%20KATANA.htmKoshirae: check (tho not super fancy) Katana (and genuine nihonto): check Reputable dealer: check In your budget: check That's not only everything that Verity said, it's also mounted in real, authentic, gunto koshirae.
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Post by Verity on Aug 9, 2018 14:56:17 GMT
Another note to add, you can also get relatively decent katana with an “unsightly” (but not fatal) flaw in those price points. Fukure are good to look for as they bring the prices WAY down because collectors often avoid fukure. Andy has a kanbun example (1660’s) of such: www.nihonto.us/TERUKADO%20-YOSHISADA%20KATANA.htmKoshirae: check (tho not super fancy) Katana (and genuine nihonto): check Reputable dealer: check In your budget: check That's not only everything that Verity said, it's also mounted in real, authentic, gunto koshirae. on this particular piece, it’s a 400 year old blade which is nice for that “second kind of cool”... it’s affordable given the issues (which are clearly stated up front by Andy, who is a totally upstanding dude)... But the issues with more explanation, which are the reason for the price. 1.) the obvious fukure: fukure are very unsightly but relatively harmless for structure unless they appear right on the ha (edge), or boshi (tip part of the hamon temper). Basically, unless it disturbs the temper line or is right on the edge, it’s ugly but not a problem. Incidentally for display the nice bit here is the fukure is on the ura side so if displayed properly this side of the blade would be the one towards the wall and not visible unless you take the blade down to inspect it. 2.) the Nakago has some rust going. If you got this; do NOT try to clean it off yourself. Just continuously get some oil on there to stop the oxygen getting to it and try to deactivate the rust without removing it (the rust will go from red to brown and eventually black). But as a result of this, the habaki cannot be removed which is less than ideal. 3.) someone tried to sharpen it at the tip. Honestly, given Andy’s photography it is hard to see how “bad” this is. It may come out with a finish polish (again. Do NOT do this yourself)... but I see this as the blade’s biggest problem. That all said. Solid and mostly healthy 400-year old katana (that may likely have been used in battle) in koshirae. Within your budget. Could definitely use a polish but... probably not a blade worth undergoing it unless you just wanted to in order to do it. David Hofhine might be able to do a finish polish only... that would clean things up a lot.
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Post by Verity on Aug 9, 2018 15:12:53 GMT
Also separate, keep an eye on Aoi Japan. They sometimes tuck beautiful blades in both the retail site (an on-hold example: www.aoijapan.com/katana-mumeiunsigned though this does breach the 2k mark but is cheap for the condition and beauty). Also the Aoi auctions often have good stuff: www.aoijapan.com/katanaguntonoshu-seki-ju-kaneue-saku/(Again, higher than your price point but...) But in general keep an eye on Aoi’s auctions. There is a Sukesada there right now I am kicking myself I can’t get because I am committed on other items.
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 9, 2018 17:10:50 GMT
In regards to what everyone has said. Thanks I really appreciate the sound and solid advice. I'm glad I found a good forum in which I'm able to get info and advice from and from good experienced guys like yourselves. I've been into Nihonto for a very long time now but never really ventured into the real Shinken world until now since I now have some decent funds. Definitely do not think of Nihonto as an investment piece. The best way I can sum up of what I'm looking for right now is what Verity mentioned previously, just a decent real Shinken to kinda get my foot into the door to 1) learn more 2) figure out what I truly want to look for in a blade and 3) have a piece of history I can look at and admire. Another thing I'm looking for right now is a reproduction Nihonto that's as close to a real Shinken made by Japanese smiths like what www.jidai.jp/shinken.asp offers. Currently my budget for everything is 1700 but if need be I can raise it to 2300 or 2500. That is of course going to change.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Aug 9, 2018 17:57:34 GMT
I totally agree with you Verity, while you always hear the "buy books, spend years reading them, buy a good sword" mantra, honestly I do not think it is the right way to attract new interested collectors. I think I dare to say that good portion of Japanese sword collectors are older men who are financially well off. So their view of collecting is very different from an average newbie.
I don't shun lower class items, heck if I find some of those that I like I'd be happy to buy them myself if I'll have the funds. I just wanted to point out that swords do not rise in value easily. I am happy to collect low-mid tier stuff most of my life as that is what is financially possible for me. I feel like sometimes the "art sword" collectors forget that for many of us putting even some thousands for a sword is a multi-year investment and saving. So for example let's say to many new to the hobby just saving 5 years for your first sword would most likely kill the interest towards the hobby. This is one of the reason why production katana are easy crowd pleasers, you can get into the sword hobby from 50€/$+ Investing 50 is a lot easier than investing 5000 when you are entering into a new hobby.
I think you guys have suggested some good recommendations in this thread. And when you (new collector) will get more experience under your belt even eBay, auctions etc. will become good options to look around. It is just that it is a lot easier to get burned on those than when dealing with long time dealers with good reputation.
There used to be few US dealers (I guess you are in US as dollars were used), that had more affordable stock. I haven't been up to many US dealers as I have my eyes fixed on Japanese sites.
Alf Tan used to have sub 2500$ section before his site re-design. I remember some years back he used to have lots of stuff below 2k$'s, japanesesword.com/
Ray Singer has occasionally stuff under/around 2k as well and he is a good guy to deal with. swordsofjapan.com/
There are few shops in Japan that have good sized inventories of second hand modern made swords (as you mentioned also looking into new swords). They are lot cheaper than commissioning a new from a smith. I think there are also guys in the US who have good contacts to modern smiths & swords.
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Post by Verity on Aug 9, 2018 18:37:16 GMT
Jussi EkholmOh man! Totally spaced and forgot about Ray! Yes he has GREAT deals on stuff from time to time!
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Post by treeslicer on Aug 9, 2018 19:18:12 GMT
I think I dare to say that good portion of Japanese sword collectors are older men who are financially well off. So their view of collecting is very different from an average newbie............... ............There are few shops in Japan that have good sized inventories of second hand modern made swords (as you mentioned also looking into new swords). They are lot cheaper than commissioning a new from a smith. I think there are also guys in the US who have good contacts to modern smiths & swords.
We also have more time and means for study, cultivation of skills, and the pursuit of hobbies that lend themselves to restoring nihonto, and improving replicas. Not all of us are engaged in merely stacking Juyo in the closet.
IMHO, new shinsakuto aren't that great a deal, compared to older/used swords, whether as shinken, or for appreciation. Like new cars, you lose money on them once they leave the showroom.
BTW, I have some originally low-priced "folded-steel, clay-tempered" Chinese katana which show every hataraki known (and none of the ware), though the o-itame/masame mix hada are rather monotonous. I feel that you can study and appreciate these as well as nihonto, without spending a load of money, and gain experience with polishing, fitting tosogu and koshirae, etc., without being frightened you'll foul one up. That, in turn, will make you a better nihonto connoisseur.
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 9, 2018 20:56:46 GMT
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Post by Verity on Aug 9, 2018 21:08:45 GMT
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 9, 2018 22:44:26 GMT
I might pick it up
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 10, 2018 3:10:42 GMT
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Post by Verity on Aug 10, 2018 3:28:50 GMT
Why you gotta tempt me like that, voidec? 😂😂 Out of your list, I like the first option personally. I also like this one: www.k-sword.jp/goods.php?id=454My goodness Kaneie sure are pretty, even if not tamahagane.
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Post by Verity on Aug 10, 2018 3:35:22 GMT
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 10, 2018 3:54:04 GMT
there's a reason I didn't link the Yamato series. I knew you were gonna droll all over your keyboard
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 10, 2018 3:55:52 GMT
Here's a question I'm gonna ask everyone. Out of all of the brands that currently make reproduction katanas. Which are the highest end production brands that closely resemble real nihonto? If you would rank them in order in your opinion.
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Post by treeslicer on Aug 10, 2018 4:46:04 GMT
Here's a question I'm gonna ask everyone. Out of all of the brands that currently make reproduction katanas. Which are the highest end production brands that closely resemble real nihonto? If you would rank them in order in your opinion. I refuse to answer your question as asked on the grounds that it might tend to get me exterminated, but I'll note that Kasumiyama (see my pic in the hamon thread, she's in the middle), carefully repolished from her original state, and tricked out in antique Japanese tosogu, has fooled some expert buddies of mine before, and is an eBay auction win ($147.50 and Free Shipping) from a well-known, but very ordinary, Chinese reseller (who, incidentally, quit doing auctions about that time ). Sometimes, "Out of Texas by Truck" wins the Derby.
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 10, 2018 4:53:40 GMT
Here's a question I'm gonna ask everyone. Out of all of the brands that currently make reproduction katanas. Which are the highest end production brands that closely resemble real nihonto? If you would rank them in order in your opinion. I refuse to answer your question as asked on the grounds that it might tend to get me exterminated, but I'll note that Kasumiyama (see my pic in the hamon thread, she's in the middle), carefully repolished from her original state, and tricked out in antique Japanese tosogu, has fooled some expert buddies of mine before, and is an eBay auction win ($147.50 and Free Shipping) from a well-known, but very ordinary, Chinese reseller (who, incidentally, quit doing auctions about that time ). Sometimes, "Out of Texas by Truck" wins the Derby. pm me your response then???
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Post by treeslicer on Aug 10, 2018 5:00:08 GMT
there's a reason I didn't link the Yamato series. I knew you were gonna droll all over your keyboard Nah, we're experienced. Cover your keyboard in plastic wrap. With some of the posts I read online, it protects my keyboard from the effects of busting out laughing while drinking coffee, as well.
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voidec
Member
Back in the game after like 8 years
Posts: 141
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Post by voidec on Aug 10, 2018 5:05:14 GMT
there's a reason I didn't link the Yamato series. I knew you were gonna droll all over your keyboard Nah, we're experienced. Cover your keyboard in plastic wrap. With some of the posts I read online, it protects my keyboard from the effects of busting out laughing while drinking coffee, as well. ahahahah
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Post by Verity on Aug 10, 2018 5:33:45 GMT
Here's a question I'm gonna ask everyone. Out of all of the brands that currently make reproduction katanas. Which are the highest end production brands that closely resemble real nihonto? If you would rank them in order in your opinion. i find it amusing you ask this question and honestly just prior linked the website for the production company _I_ believe gets the closest. Now I’m not talking high end tamahagane customs or even ridiculously high end makers like Raw or Clark. But production? Kaneie wins. IMO opinion. Why? Their geometries and attention to proper hamon enrichment through BOTH acid for whitening AND nugui for darkening the ji. Their kissaki are expertly executed. Now second place? That is where it gets really muddy for production. I’d say maybe the higher end Hanwei/Chens? Ronin elites I’d say are third... tho their jigane needs a lot of work and their hamon polish is almost a weird reverse. I know not what mystery maker treeslicer mentions but yeah. Would love to know too, dude. Hehe.
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