Zen_Hydra
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Born with a heart full of neutrality
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Post by Zen_Hydra on Jun 18, 2018 20:20:59 GMT
Related to the discussion at hand, I am about to begin the final steps in my East/West greatsword project, and I've been planning to make a leather baldric for it.
When it comes to carrying a big sword on a baldric, what are the best mounting points from the scabbard to the leather straps (i.e. how would they best be spaced)?
Also, what are your thoughts on what the best orientation (horizontal, vertical, some angle in between) would be for carrying a curved blade around 60 inches (152.4 cm) in length?
Should I carry it edge up, or down (I'm leaning towards down)?
I know I can figure all this out by trial and error, but I thought getting a few opinions might save same time and effort.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 20:31:25 GMT
When testing the points in which the baldric is attached, I tend to try left at certain points of the scabbard, with the sword in it, with my fingers, trying to find where it sits most comfortable to my preferred angle.
As for my preferred angle, typically, the sword kind of tells me it on its own. If its too vertical, the second point near the end won't really do much, and will be quit slack. I also try keeping it from being too horizontal.
For my, my preferred space is slightly under 1' apart. I make kind of a lazy baldric that is attached one end on each point, so I can freely adjust the angle it sits at, and can even wear it behind me
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 18, 2018 20:34:18 GMT
Also, what are your thoughts on what the best orientation (horizontal, vertical, some angle in between) would be for carrying a curved blade around 60 inches (152.4 cm) in length? Should I carry it edge up, or down (I'm leaning towards down)? I wouldn't wear a blade that big on a baldric. If I was to wear it, I'd hang from the belt, edge down, with the scabbard mouth fairly low to give me lots of space to be able to get the blade out. This means it will have to be worn almost horizontally, which will be inconvenient. But: is this the kind of sword you'd wear around town, like a n idiotmanly man with a rapier with a 50" blade? If you accept the inconvenience. If it's for military use, and not your primary weapon, join the cavalry so you can hang it by your saddle rather than wearing it. If it's a battle sword and your primary weapon, don't wear it. Just carry the scabbarded sword over your shoulder.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Jun 18, 2018 20:48:01 GMT
Does anyone else find a scabbard distracting when you are practicing drills? Do people just ignore the thing clumsily bouncing around? And furthermore, how does one use the full motion of their pole arm with a sword dangling around? Especially with say, a Katana and a naginata Only done a little polearm wearing a katana. No great problem. The tsuka sits where my polearm haft doesn't usually go, and bumping the saya a bit isn't going to cause problems (unlike catching the haft on the tsuka). Holding it with the haft low, the haft is at low-hip/high-thigh level, and well below the tsuka. Holding high, it's above shoulder height. With right hand forward, and the haft on the same side as the sword, the haft stays clear of the tsuka transitioning between these, and on cuts. (YMMV: the cutting polearm I did this with was a pollaxe; haven't tried this with naginata, just yari and pollaxe.) Obi around waist, not around hips. This is an important point for secure wear of lots of swords. Wear the sword belt around your waist, not your hips. For swords suspended from the belt, this keeps them in closer and higher, keeping them clear of your feet, and keeps the hilt close in to your body. With a scabbard slide (i.e., strap bridge) as seen on many Viking swords and older (and Han jian), this puts the hilt in front of your chest, nicely out of the way, and the sword is held fairly tightly against your body (the scabbard is between you and the belt). For hung from the scabbard by some kind of strap/frog, belt around the waist, short hanger, and sword will sit snugly against the hip, hilt high (at waist). Horizontal hang also works snugly from a waist belt - hang from two points, with two hangers. Common carry for tachi and various Central Asian swords (e.g., with P-mount scabbards). This will work for lots of dao scabbards as well.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 21:24:25 GMT
Does anyone else find a scabbard distracting when you are practicing drills? Do people just ignore the thing clumsily bouncing around? And furthermore, how does one use the full motion of their pole arm with a sword dangling around? Especially with say, a Katana and a naginata Only done a little polearm wearing a katana. No great problem. The tsuka sits where my polearm haft doesn't usually go, and bumping the saya a bit isn't going to cause problems (unlike catching the haft on the tsuka). Holding it with the haft low, the haft is at low-hip/high-thigh level, and well below the tsuka. Holding high, it's above shoulder height. With right hand forward, and the haft on the same side as the sword, the haft stays clear of the tsuka transitioning between these, and on cuts. (YMMV: the cutting polearm I did this with was a pollaxe; haven't tried this with naginata, just yari and pollaxe.) Obi around waist, not around hips. This is an important point for secure wear of lots of swords. Wear the sword belt around your waist, not your hips. For swords suspended from the belt, this keeps them in closer and higher, keeping them clear of your feet, and keeps the hilt close in to your body. With a scabbard slide (i.e., strap bridge) as seen on many Viking swords and older (and Han jian), this puts the hilt in front of your chest, nicely out of the way, and the sword is held fairly tightly against your body (the scabbard is between you and the belt). For hung from the scabbard by some kind of strap/frog, belt around the waist, short hanger, and sword will sit snugly against the hip, hilt high (at waist). Horizontal hang also works snugly from a waist belt - hang from two points, with two hangers. Common carry for tachi and various Central Asian swords (e.g., with P-mount scabbards). This will work for lots of dao scabbards as well. Thanks for the answer. I just realized my error. I usually wear my obi on my hips, as I find it more comfortable. Time to change a lot of what I do. This error likely stems from when Metis wear their sash (males), we wear it on our hips, as thats the point in which our shirt is tucked in their pants, so it just made sense and I haven't been corrected on it before
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 22:24:23 GMT
No problem with saya in obi. Also using a longer tsuka than most at 13+ inches. Neither get in the way in the slightest. The placement was covered long before polearms even came into play.
There's a reason you spend a lot of time learning the little details. That gets lost when you stomp right into play fighting.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 22:40:02 GMT
No problem with saya in obi. Also using a longer tsuka than most at 13+ inches. Neither get in the way in the slightest. The placement was covered long before polearms even came into play. There's a reason you spend a lot of time learning the little details. That gets lost when you stomp right into play fighting. We kinda just did sword or spear. We never wore both at once. Plus I never really graduated to an iaido from a standard bokken, mostly due to the cost of an iaido. It wasn't the most traditional school either. It was something but it wasn't exactly a legit school that trained a person to be a samurai
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christain
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Post by christain on Jun 18, 2018 23:24:59 GMT
Pikes, halberds, lances, spears, and larger two-hand swords would have often been carried in a mule cart. Knights would probably have their personal swords-in scabbard-lashed to their saddle, length-wise with the horse so as not to break the sword if the horse fell. The sword was never the *primary* weapon of a Knight. We prefer nasty weapons like war hammers, and maces and shtuff.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 18, 2018 23:46:14 GMT
"hope you can get to the cart in time" is an awesome method for accessing your "primary" weapon.... Lol
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Post by Cosmoline on Jun 19, 2018 1:19:35 GMT
It's not as bad as leaving your mail back on the boats! You can ask the vikings in 1066 how that went. Thinking back on it, I don't remember hearing accounts of troops marching in ready-to-fight condition until the early modern period, when line-and-column formations and muskets with bayonets allowed each man to be ready on the move. Maybe pike formations as well--I've heard of a forced march done in full kit with the pikes on their shoulders. But earlier I'm not really remembering much about knights riding long distances ready to rumble. The armor is an even bigger problem than the pole arms. So the old tradition of getting ready for battle at a chosen battle site the evening before makes sense. It also allows for critical spiritual preparations.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 19, 2018 3:27:40 GMT
That is truly spectacular.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jun 19, 2018 3:51:33 GMT
I really enjoy this thread. Been learning a lot. Thanks for chiming in guys. I guess I've confirmed something I already knew: baldrics are a superior way to carry sword 😎
I am also a fan of obi/sash though. Those interlaced belts are okay though too,
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 19, 2018 5:04:45 GMT
If you take off the baldric with the scabbard and grip the end of the scabbard you have something like a whip in your offhand. I wonder if there are any records of using it this way.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jun 19, 2018 5:29:16 GMT
If you take off the baldric with the scabbard and grip the end of the scabbard you have something like a whip in your offhand. I wonder if there are any records of using it this way. I always wondered if people ever pulled out their wood or steel scabbard and used it like a shield/parrying stick in their off hand.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jun 19, 2018 5:38:56 GMT
If you take off the baldric with the scabbard and grip the end of the scabbard you have something like a whip in your offhand. I wonder if there are any records of using it this way. I always wondered if people ever pulled out their wood or steel scabbard and used it like a shield/parrying stick in their off hand. I imagine if it were a good hard wood scabbard it could be useful for that,like the Kris cutlery 26/29 scabbards. Steel scabbards woukd be great for sure
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jun 19, 2018 8:01:58 GMT
Another question: This might just be in fantasy art, but is it even possible to comfortably use a sword with a bunch of pouches on a waist belt? I find my canvas pouch, when worn there, tends to get bumped by my elbows a lot.
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Post by MOK on Jun 19, 2018 8:38:28 GMT
If you take off the baldric with the scabbard and grip the end of the scabbard you have something like a whip in your offhand. I wonder if there are any records of using it this way. I always wondered if people ever pulled out their wood or steel scabbard and used it like a shield/parrying stick in their off hand. There are historical accounts of that, yes, practically everywhere and everywhen, from Norse sagas through the crusades to Japanese battle reports. Totally a done thing.
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Post by MOK on Jun 19, 2018 8:46:06 GMT
Another question: This might just be in fantasy art, but is it even possible to comfortably use a sword with a bunch of pouches on a waist belt? I find my canvas pouch, when worn there, tends to get bumped by my elbows a lot. Stand up straight, boy! Can't say I've ever had a problem with anything worn snug on the belt. My elbows only reach down just past my ribcage, and anything worn on the belt that sticks up that high would be a serious nuisance anyway. With a belt worn higher, at the natural waist... well, just move your elbows wider or turn your belt so the pouch is behind you.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Jun 19, 2018 8:56:50 GMT
Another question: This might just be in fantasy art, but is it even possible to comfortably use a sword with a bunch of pouches on a waist belt? I find my canvas pouch, when worn there, tends to get bumped by my elbows a lot. Stand up straight, boy! Can't say I've ever had a problem with anything worn snug on the belt. My elbows only reach down just past my ribcage, and anything worn on the belt that sticks up that high would be a serious nuisance anyway. They are usually fine if I have them at my hips, but when on the natural waist line, they are exactly where my elbows reach lol. I also see swords worn vertically from here, and I cannot imagine having that thing annoyingly poke into your armpit all day
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Post by MOK on Jun 19, 2018 9:05:59 GMT
See my edit, above. The thing with the Greco-Roman style short baldrics is that the sword hangs relatively loose and is free to move with your body instead of poking into it. Wearing it high should also keep it from banging against your leg too much.
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