Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
|
Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 0:14:15 GMT
Does anyone else find a scabbard distracting when you are practicing drills? Do people just ignore the thing clumsily bouncing around? And furthermore, how does one use the full motion of their pole arm with a sword dangling around? Especially with say, a Katana and a naginata
|
|
christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
|
Post by christain on Jun 18, 2018 0:43:19 GMT
This is the exact reason I like a shoulder baldric. Just slip it off, draw your blade, and throw the baldric and scabbard aside.
|
|
Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
|
Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 0:47:45 GMT
Yea same here. It's by far my favourite carry method. Can even just pull down on the baldric and it will pull the scabbard behind you
|
|
christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
|
Post by christain on Jun 18, 2018 0:54:49 GMT
And with a baldric, you can grab the scabbard and hold it in front of you for navigating narrow streets and alleys. Also, sling it completely around and your sword is hidden behind your cloak.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Jun 18, 2018 2:09:32 GMT
I like a baldric, easy on-easy off. I understand that the Chinese used a simple clip that supported their scabbards and slipped on their belts that slipped off just as easily. I located some in Europe. It is a simple device but my cost on receiving about would be 50 USD so I passed. I’ve seen key chain holders on the same principle. I also have a back carry system for a katana that keeps it out of the way and I like. I like short swords and with those there’s not much a problem.
|
|
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 18, 2018 4:04:10 GMT
Baldric, baldric, baldric ...!!!
|
|
Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
|
Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 4:26:25 GMT
So does anyone have any answers to the original belt question? Or should i just set up all my swords to be in baldrics?
Mostly just curious what people regularly did about this deal. I feel like the romans had it right
|
|
|
Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jun 18, 2018 4:45:29 GMT
Perhaps limp leather sheaths or hooked scabbards?
|
|
|
Post by zabazagobo on Jun 18, 2018 4:54:23 GMT
I can use two (or one) katana while having the saya placed in an obi belt just fine. Whether they're on the same side (think typical daisho) or placed on opposite sides, they don't get in the way at all during regular standing, walking, running, shifting, turning and spinning shenanigans. Obi seem to keep the saya very secure from my experience and they don't bounce around or get in the way at all. Using paired obi to keep the saya staggered works well when you want them positioned on each hip for a quick draw with either hand/sword and for minimal arm interference. It's also easy to draw a katana with your left hand from the 'standard' position in the same manner as when drawing a wakizashi if you want both swords placed on one hip. From my experience, the scabbard is most awkward when utilizing a belt with a looser attachment such as a frog. Scabbards and sheathes seem to just flop around in this setup and it gets annoying really quickly. So unless you tighten up the fit so the scabbard doesn't flop around and bash into your leg(s), baldrics are better. Never tried placing a longsword or rapier in an obi, that just seems, well...not all that horrible now that I think about if there's a viable sageo-kurigata substitute in play.
Edit: As for the polearm question...tough to say since I've never really used a naginata with two katana in my obi, but I would wager that your movement wouldn't be all that constricted given the motions I've seen the weapons put through. The kata video Timo posted over on the systems of swordplay thread (page 4 I think) shows the naginata in some fairly wide, fluid and exact movements that don't seem like they'd interfere with swords seated in an obi.
Wish Kiyoshi still posted here, he could probably chime in with some insight on the subject.
|
|
Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
|
Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 5:24:19 GMT
The saya never really got in my way in katana practice, but it seems to get in the way a ton when using naginata. It's like there is just not good way to put it in the obi during practice
It's mostly the end of the spear that seems to hit against the tsuka or saya. But maybe I just need a proper obi. I was trained on yari, but I know little about naginata
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Jun 18, 2018 9:24:56 GMT
With my longer swords I use a frog that carries the scabbard in a vertical position. When the scabbard is carried at a cant I am constant banging into things. But the real reason I prefer a vertical carry is that I can free myself of it about as easily as using a baldric, possibly a trifle faster. For example, I don’t have to work the baldric around my brimmed helmet. I simply place my hand over the frog and bend my knees. The scabbard is pushed straight up. At some point, preferably when the scabbard has been pushed some distance, I grasp the scabbard and lift it out of frog. While doing so I take the sword’s grip and release the scabbard and let gravity do the rest, I cannot not agree with those liking a tight fitting scabbard as it slows the draw. That is not to say that a scabbard that allows the sword to flop around is acceptable. I should have stated this in the beginning. As far as fighting with that thing flopping around on my side as in the movies/TV-forget it. Not only is it distracting it’s a trip hazard.
|
|
|
Post by MOK on Jun 18, 2018 10:32:22 GMT
Does anyone else find a scabbard distracting when you are practicing drills? Oh my yes. Practice! I think of it as no different from learning how to move with a backpack or in armour: you just have to figure out how to move with the damn thing instead of fighting against it. Adjusting the suspension system properly for a snug, secure fit on your body also helps. That said, there's a reason people typically left their scabbards off when going into a fight, if given the chance... and often carried the scabbarded sword in their hand instead of strapped on, especially in urban contexts.
|
|
|
Post by MOK on Jun 18, 2018 10:37:54 GMT
The saya never really got in my way in katana practice, but it seems to get in the way a ton when using naginata. It's like there is just not good way to put it in the obi during practice It's mostly the end of the spear that seems to hit against the tsuka or saya. But maybe I just need a proper obi. I was trained on yari, but I know little about naginata I wonder if the lower slung tachi mounts would help with this.
|
|
|
Post by wlewisiii on Jun 18, 2018 12:46:26 GMT
Baldric, baldric, baldric ...!!! What was that about a very cunning plan?
|
|
christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
|
Post by christain on Jun 18, 2018 13:03:05 GMT
This issue could also be a reason for the invention of the Medieval-style ring belt. Just a simple metal ring, and the belt knotted onto itself. This allowed the sword to be carried on the hip, but the belt and scabbard undone and discarded in an instant, if need be. But, yeah, the Romans got it right. Shorter sword on a vertical-carry baldric.
|
|
pgandy
Moderator
Senior Forumite
Posts: 10,296
|
Post by pgandy on Jun 18, 2018 16:52:26 GMT
I hadn't thought of it but now I'll keep "quick release mechanism" in mind if I purchase another.
|
|
|
Post by Cosmoline on Jun 18, 2018 17:16:04 GMT
So does anyone have any answers to the original belt question? Or should i just set up all my swords to be in baldrics? Mostly just curious what people regularly did about this deal. I feel like the romans had it right
There's evidence in late medieval art of people using regular sword belts as baldrics.
|
|
|
Post by legacyofthesword on Jun 18, 2018 17:59:12 GMT
So does anyone have any answers to the original belt question? Or should i just set up all my swords to be in baldrics? Mostly just curious what people regularly did about this deal. I feel like the romans had it right
There's evidence in late medieval art of people using regular sword belts as baldrics.
I like that harness the fellow in the top left image is using. Looks like a precursor to the modern military assembly of straps and so on.
|
|
Ifrit
Member
More edgy than a double edge sword
Posts: 3,284
|
Post by Ifrit on Jun 18, 2018 19:49:32 GMT
Thanks for the answers guys. So it wasn't uncommon for people to ditch their scabbard? And thanks Cosmo for the picture. The baldric just makes sense
|
|
|
Post by 28shadow on Jun 18, 2018 20:18:22 GMT
Scabbards can get in the way. They can catch between the back of your legs and trip you if positioned right. A simple and floppy leather sheath can actually alleviate this problem as it will give.
I also find stance can help. If you have a particularly low stance then the scabbard, even a shorter one, will hit the ground. I personally prefer a taller, upright stance. That comes with it's own cons of course.
I believe in some saber systems it was customary to hold the scabbard with the off hand with the edge facing upwards, not too dissimilar to the Japanese style.
As others have said one could just remove the scabbard after drawing the sword, which you can notice in movies and in stage where the actors and choreographers don't want the scabbards catching on clothing, legs, or set pieces. In more historical terms, not all who carried swords with them did so on their person. Some might have had squires or pages who carried their sword around for them.
|
|