tonystark
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Post by tonystark on May 23, 2018 16:58:02 GMT
Don’t laugh, but I’ve watched pretty much EVERYTHING Netflix has to offer (that I’d be interested in). I found Star Trek Next Generation and started from Ep. 1. While watching I started wondering how effective a Klingon bat’leth would really be, if utilized using any of the current martial arts from around the world. What do you guys/ladies think?
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Post by Faldarin on May 23, 2018 17:15:44 GMT
Mostly layman's opinion? Versatile. I could see a lot of use of one in many different methods. But the range would be a significant drawback - like taking the longsword range problem and multiplying it. (I can't imagine using one with a single hand would be very agile.) Also - anyone else using a bladed weapon, coming in at the correct angle, is going to take advantage of your lack of handguards, and you'll have no fingers quickly. Might even lose a hand.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 23, 2018 17:23:50 GMT
I guess it could work similar to halfswording a longsword, all that harnischfechten stuff.
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Post by Faldarin on May 23, 2018 17:41:44 GMT
I guess it could work similar to halfswording a longsword, all that harnischfechten stuff. True. I didn't even think about it from an armor standpoint. If Klingons developed armor technology somehow before weapons tech - I could see this being a potentially useful solution. Cross in-armor fighting with methods of the berserkers - and you might have a good explanation that would fit in the Star Trek universe for why the bat'leth was created/used. (And it just looks really cool. It's on my LONG list of fantasy stuff that I want some day.)
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on May 23, 2018 17:44:29 GMT
From people who have tried to use them. Very bad balance and award to use, wanted to turn in the hand.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 23, 2018 18:14:43 GMT
Most of the time I saw overweighted stainless steel types, but once a store here offered a slender under 2kg carbon steel sharpened one that looked interesting. It's not a weapon for swinging or fencing like a normal sword. It's half staff and half axe, or a dane axe with an axe head on each end, not really a sword. And Klingons wear armor! Qapla'!
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Zen_Hydra
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Post by Zen_Hydra on May 23, 2018 18:33:38 GMT
I think they are a terrible design. The amount of metal would add unnecessary mass. It has terrible reach. You would be better off using a pair of Deer Horn Knives. They would give you more angles of attack, the full reach and range of motion in both arms, and even combined they have less mass and bulk to carry around than the bat’leth.
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Post by demonskull on May 23, 2018 18:51:03 GMT
Word to the wise: They won't stop a phaser ! Old Klingon Proverb " Never bring a batleth to a disrupter fight "
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Post by 28shadow on May 23, 2018 19:14:24 GMT
As a short staff/spear/bayonet style of weapon, yes. Would any of those others be more effective? Yes. Is the batleth still cool? HELL YES!
BBC America was running a Star Trek TNG marathon yesterday and I got to catch most of the shows in the morning before work. Brought back a lot of very enjoyable memories of watching the show. Fridays they run the original series all day long, and I fully expect to take advantage of that after work on Friday.
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 23, 2018 19:20:47 GMT
It would be good at defending and bad at attacking I think. You could use it like a quarter staff to parry, but you cant easily generate power because your hands are always gonna be close to the portion of the blade that makes contact with your opponent.
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Post by legacyofthesword on May 23, 2018 19:32:03 GMT
... wanted to turn in the hand.
This is what I'd be most worried about.
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Post by Jordan Williams on May 23, 2018 21:44:57 GMT
I think it's a horrible design. No reach, no real offensive power, no advantage of the shortness of the blade (e.g. a cutlass or long knife would be better than this because you can use your off hand with no disadvantage at all, with this you have a poky thing to worry about if you use it with one hand), and you really don't have much cutting capacity. I mean you'd have to be within licking distance to actually get a good cut in that penetrates deep enough, and the received blade could make it difficult to get a good "flow" going in cutting motions ala tulwar. Thrusting would leave you wide open for any kind if afterblow unless you retract and get back faster than they can swing or complete their swing.
Even in its own context, being used in the confines of a ship it is still poorly designed. Imagine swinging it darthmaul style down a corridor, and then add in parry and block and other mechanics. A long knife, short sword, even a thrust centric sword like a spadroon or smallsword would make for a better weapon.
What's that thing called, a mekleth? That's a good weapon. Basically a cutlass without any ability to thrust.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 23, 2018 22:38:09 GMT
They appear to be poorly designed for real life. I see fatigue, poor balance, transporting problems, torquing, and problems with one handed use if one hand is disabled, amongst other things. It looks to me like someone was desperate for an eye catching weapon to use in their movie production. And that is where it belongs, in a fantasy movie. I think one would be better off with a pair of deer horns if one’s interest runs in that direction.
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on May 23, 2018 22:39:20 GMT
I see it as an obvious close quarters weapon, and despite its lack of reach it could (hypothetically of course) defend your midsection where dual wielding might leave an opening. I saw a custom made “carbon steel” model recently, and I debated picking one up. If for nothing else, for nostalgia’s sake!
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Post by randomnobody on May 23, 2018 22:45:25 GMT
I've always figured they were a sort of metal quarterstaff with pointy bits. As for gripping surfaces, I imagine the default is just flat metal, but could be wrapped however one might like for a custom grip that could work pretty well.
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on May 23, 2018 23:15:09 GMT
I think you guys are all correct. It COULD have certain advantages, in my mind mostly CQ, but I believe the Klingons have other more single handed weapons. They have several ceremonial long knives, and some high ranking Klingons had fighting daggers. I was wondering what, if any, current martial arts might use such a weapon (i.e kali, kenpo...etc).
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Post by L Driggers (fallen) on May 24, 2018 5:47:53 GMT
I think you guys are all correct. It COULD have certain advantages, in my mind mostly CQ, but I believe the Klingons have other more single handed weapons. They have several ceremonial long knives, and some high ranking Klingons had fighting daggers. I was wondering what, if any, current martial arts might use such a weapon (i.e kali, kenpo...etc). Hell no.
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AndiTheBarvarian
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on May 24, 2018 6:03:19 GMT
It's a fantasy weapon and I have never seen a similar real weapon, but who knows all the strange Asian or African bladed weapons. The combat system that I see as a possibility for a batleth is longsword for armed combat/harnischfechten. (... and you could attach more pommels!)
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Post by elbrittania39 on May 24, 2018 6:17:15 GMT
I think quarterstaff makes the most sense since you're gonna be placing two hands near the center of the weapons. Regardless, I still think its a poor weapon when you consider alternatives. Anything from a spear to a scimitar would be faster, have better reach, and generate more power.
Another reason this weapon bugs me is you cant just carry it around. Its big and has a complex profile which means you cant just hang it at your waist like a sword. Instead, it winds up being like a poleax, a primary weapon you have to carry with two hands at all times. Usually, in order to be a primary weapon requiring two hands (and not a back up blade on the hip) a weapon has to be pretty dang good.
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Post by randomnobody on May 24, 2018 11:26:56 GMT
Honestly, I've never watched any of the Star Trek series, but the impression I've always gotten from the bat'leth was that it was more of a ritualized dueling weapon than a primary combat arm. Might be that some only carry one, and I'm sure there's some kind of crazy back scabbard or something because why not, but I'd almost wager it's only for the psychological impact of the presumably-legendary fighting prowess of a Klingon with a bat'leth.
I'm also seeing that famous Indiana Jones scene from the day Harrison Ford had the flu...
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