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Post by howler on Apr 29, 2018 21:24:05 GMT
Oh crap, I didn’t realize there was a “limit” on how many firearms you could buy. That kinda stinks, but looking at what happens when people stockpile weapons, I can kinda see why countries put limitations on how many firearms citizens own. *shrug* A revolver is a good choice though 😉 My thinking is, if the police and military can stockpile, so can the citizenry. I place as much trust in the "common man" as I do "The State". Of course dangerous weapons/devices like explosives, chemical, biological, radiological, etc...and things that go beyond common sidearm definition (semiautomatic rifles, pistols) are clearly a danger to the community/society. People hoarding semi pistols/rifles when police/military have full auto, armored vehicles and military have...everything else imaginable shouldn't be viewed as bad. I guess the worry by some is irresponsible folks not locking their stuff up in a safe properly and the guns getting into the hands of criminals. Oh well, price of living in a free society, I suppose. The fear/problem is the state getting involved in potential enforcement, regulation, registration of the law abiding and the abuses, unintended consequences that would crop up.
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Post by Croccifixio on Apr 29, 2018 23:08:49 GMT
Yeah. Just going a bit off tangent, without 2A to back us up, the police power of the state ensures legal justification for all these regulations. I don’t mind as much, living in the city, but if I lived in a province where terrorist or rebel groups thrived, I’d be really pissed. They have everything up to belt fed mounted machine guns. Is it any wonder that the military has not really come close to quelling their activities?
In the city though, it’s all about handguns. We can apply for carry permits so at least we can ccw.
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 0:26:03 GMT
Yeah. Just going a bit off tangent, without 2A to back us up, the police power of the state ensures legal justification for all these regulations. I don’t mind as much, living in the city, but if I lived in a province where terrorist or rebel groups thrived, I’d be really pissed. They have everything up to belt fed mounted machine guns. Is it any wonder that the military has not really come close to quelling their activities? In the city though, it’s all about handguns. We can apply for carry permits so at least we can ccw. I've been following both your and the Filipino peoples plight, and it just makes you realize how precious freedom and justice are, and how they are easily taken for granted...then lost.
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on Apr 30, 2018 3:10:41 GMT
The both of you are absolutely correct, but I have seen the dangers of citizens “stockpiling” weapons and ammo. I’ve been carrying guns and a backer of the 2nd Amendment for 18yrs now, so I’m TOTALLY behind the people being “as armed” as the State itself, but I saw one such stockpile get robbed by a gang, and the haul they walked away with was astronomical! I’m talking 70+ handguns, over 30 AR15/AR10/AK47’s PLUS 5,000 rounds of ammo! All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t want on my conscience ANY of the crimes that may or may not be committed with guns and ammo that had my name on them. I don’t think I’d EVER sleep again. Also, I live in the Northeast corner of the US, and some of those same “Militia” live fairly close to me. Lets just say Law Enforcement gives them a WIDE berth.
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 3:48:17 GMT
The both of you are absolutely correct, but I have seen the dangers of citizens “stockpiling” weapons and ammo. I’ve been carrying guns and a backer of the 2nd Amendment for 18yrs now, so I’m TOTALLY behind the people being “as armed” as the State itself, but I saw one such stockpile get robbed by a gang, and the haul they walked away with was astronomical! I’m talking 70+ handguns, over 30 AR15/AR10/AK47’s PLUS 5,000 rounds of ammo! All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t want on my conscience ANY of the crimes that may or may not be committed with guns and ammo that had my name on them. I don’t think I’d EVER sleep again. Also, I live in the Northeast corner of the US, and some of those same “Militia” live fairly close to me. Lets just say Law Enforcement gives them a WIDE berth. Over SEVENTY handguns...sheesh. Better have a hell of a safety system. If it is shown that those firearms were not properly secured, for insurance purposes, I hope the dude LOST HIS SHIRT, as that is a heck of a lot of money your talking about.
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Post by Croccifixio on Apr 30, 2018 6:07:54 GMT
The both of you are absolutely correct, but I have seen the dangers of citizens “stockpiling” weapons and ammo. I’ve been carrying guns and a backer of the 2nd Amendment for 18yrs now, so I’m TOTALLY behind the people being “as armed” as the State itself, but I saw one such stockpile get robbed by a gang, and the haul they walked away with was astronomical! I’m talking 70+ handguns, over 30 AR15/AR10/AK47’s PLUS 5,000 rounds of ammo! All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t want on my conscience ANY of the crimes that may or may not be committed with guns and ammo that had my name on them. I don’t think I’d EVER sleep again. Also, I live in the Northeast corner of the US, and some of those same “Militia” live fairly close to me. Lets just say Law Enforcement gives them a WIDE berth. I’m not American so I can only speak for my country... but most of our gun laws make sense. The problem is mostly in implementation. We have some of the finest illegal gunsmiths in the world (lol) who sometimes get hired by local manufacturing companies (one of the trio of Armscor-Rock Island, Metroarms, or Shooters). And that illegal market is huge, particularly for importing into countries with lax port control and for the local private armies so prevalent in the provinces. We’re still pretty much at the feudal era in most of the rural country since control is possessed mostly by warlord/druglord politicians or rebel/terrorist groups. For instance, I can own as many guns as I wanted to, but would need a collector’s license (which is kinda expensive - around $200 and renewed every 2 years). Then I would have to pay for registration of every firearm (amounting to around $40 per firearm) renewed every 4 years. If I wanted to carry it, I’d have to apply for a permit to carry, which costs $300 every year and would require there to be an actual, police-verified threat on my life (thankfully I’m exempt from that requirement, since I’m a lawyer). Now I find this logical mostly because we have a real insurgency problem, with one that has been running for more than 60 years. Allowing unbridled access to firearms simply means a continuous escalation of firearm capability for these insurgents, making them much harder to defeat in the field. And these guys are tough man. They created the need for the 45 ACP after all. Anyway really off tangent there hahaha. I really want a revolver now and I might sell off my Taurus semi for a Ruger. The price is still crazy high but I don’t have much choice.
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 7:25:14 GMT
The both of you are absolutely correct, but I have seen the dangers of citizens “stockpiling” weapons and ammo. I’ve been carrying guns and a backer of the 2nd Amendment for 18yrs now, so I’m TOTALLY behind the people being “as armed” as the State itself, but I saw one such stockpile get robbed by a gang, and the haul they walked away with was astronomical! I’m talking 70+ handguns, over 30 AR15/AR10/AK47’s PLUS 5,000 rounds of ammo! All I’m saying is that I wouldn’t want on my conscience ANY of the crimes that may or may not be committed with guns and ammo that had my name on them. I don’t think I’d EVER sleep again. Also, I live in the Northeast corner of the US, and some of those same “Militia” live fairly close to me. Lets just say Law Enforcement gives them a WIDE berth. I’m not American so I can only speak for my country... but most of our gun laws make sense. The problem is mostly in implementation. We have some of the finest illegal gunsmiths in the world (lol) who sometimes get hired by local manufacturing companies (one of the trio of Armscor-Rock Island, Metroarms, or Shooters). And that illegal market is huge, particularly for importing into countries with lax port control and for the local private armies so prevalent in the provinces. We’re still pretty much at the feudal era in most of the rural country since control is possessed mostly by warlord/druglord politicians or rebel/terrorist groups. For instance, I can own as many guns as I wanted to, but would need a collector’s license (which is kinda expensive - around $200 and renewed every 2 years). Then I would have to pay for registration of every firearm (amounting to around $40 per firearm) renewed every 4 years. If I wanted to carry it, I’d have to apply for a permit to carry, which costs $300 every year and would require there to be an actual, police-verified threat on my life (thankfully I’m exempt from that requirement, since I’m a lawyer). Now I find this logical mostly because we have a real insurgency problem, with one that has been running for more than 60 years. Allowing unbridled access to firearms simply means a continuous escalation of firearm capability for these insurgents, making them much harder to defeat in the field. And these guys are tough man. They created the need for the 45 ACP after all. Anyway really off tangent there hahaha. I really want a revolver now and I might sell off my Taurus semi for a Ruger. The price is still crazy high but I don’t have much choice. Regarding illegal gunsmiths, just imagine what would spring up in America if gun grabber/banners got their way. Point is, if people want it (like booze and prohibition), you aren't gonna stop them from getting it. Take silly high capacity magazine restrictions, for instance. Now, how the hell are you gonna stop people from making and acquiring what amounts to a ten cent box with a spring?
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Post by bluetrain on Apr 30, 2018 9:17:48 GMT
Well, apparently the magazine is the most difficult part of a pistol to make, considering how many complaints I read about them.
Does anyone ever stop to consider just why there are laws limiting ownership of deadly weapons or why alcohol prohibition was enacted to begin with? Or for that matter, why there are speed limits on the highway?
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on Apr 30, 2018 17:26:31 GMT
howler- that guy’s going to be locked up for so long I think they just threw the key to his cell away. Since it happened no ones seen or heard anything of that guy. I do believe HE is part of reason Massachusetts has such insane gun laws!
Crocc- I don’t think what you said was off tangent at all. As sorry as I am that you have to jump through hoops, lawyer exemptions aside, I imagine the laws prevent quite a bit of crime......or at the very least impose harsher penalties for crimes committed with illegally owned firearms. The price you have to pay to carry a handgun is a little exorbitant though!!
bluetrain- I agree that laws are in place to “prevent” certain things, but when it comes to gun laws in the U.S, they’re only trying to blame inanimate objects for the actions of the people who own them. Look at England, they actually have “Knife Control” laws in London! People in the US blaming an AR15 for shootings is tantamount to blaming cars for the actions of drunk drivers! Who says it would stop there if they DID ban high capacity rifles? How would everyone feel if guns were banned and crimes started being committed with knives & swords? You know damn well what would happen next! Instead of accusing objects for the crimes that people who own them commit, why not focus on even harsher sentences or reinstating the death penalty in all the states that dropped it?
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Post by wlewisiii on Apr 30, 2018 17:37:27 GMT
Stop shootings by banning AR? Nope. Decrease the number, frequency & number of deaths by making firearms - especially high capacity semi-automatics - harder to obtain? Yep. Personally, as a gun owner and army vet (NCO in the Infantry), I think we need to have a licensing system like we do with cars. Training - class room, range & first aide required & a psych exam - required but once passed a "Shall issue" license like the Czechs do. Also liability insurance required like with cars. This, again to me, would full fill the "well trained militia" statement in the constitution while also making it less likely for Joe Snuffy to go postal on his boss because he got fired yesterday. The only semi-auto I want anymore is a nice M1 Garand rebarreled to 7x57 so my old fart body can enjoy taking it hunting because .30-06 is overkill for the northern woods in Wisconsin.
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 19:02:22 GMT
Well, apparently the magazine is the most difficult part of a pistol to make, considering how many complaints I read about them. Does anyone ever stop to consider just why there are laws limiting ownership of deadly weapons or why alcohol prohibition was enacted to begin with? Or for that matter, why there are speed limits on the highway? Ya get the gist regarding mags...ten cent boxes with springs, though yes, some are more reliable than others, but it isn't much of an issue nowadays like old timers remember. Getting your antigun vibe, you believe or think they (ten cent boxes with springs) should be banned? Lets reinstall prohibition while we're at it. Your pumping false equivalency into the discussion by assuming I'm saying there should be NO REGULATIONS...ya know...like not having speed limits, as firearms are among the most highly regulated items there are.
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 19:16:07 GMT
Stop shootings by banning AR? Nope. Decrease the number, frequency & number of deaths by making firearms - especially high capacity semi-automatics - harder to obtain? Yep. Personally, as a gun owner and army vet (NCO in the Infantry), I think we need to have a licensing system like we do with cars. Training - class room, range & first aide required & a psych exam - required but once passed a "Shall issue" license like the Czechs do. Also liability insurance required like with cars. This, again to me, would full fill the "well trained militia" statement in the constitution while also making it less likely for Joe Snuffy to go postal on his boss because he got fired yesterday. The only semi-auto I want anymore is a nice M1 Garand rebarreled to 7x57 so my old fart body can enjoy taking it hunting because .30-06 is overkill for the northern woods in Wisconsin. Here's the big secret...statistically...there isn't a murder frenzy in America by people using semiautomatic rifles. Almost all the homicides are occurring from gang members using handguns. There are what, 50 million in the United States school system. Laws that are currently on the books simply need to be enforced and background checks be made more effective. Mental health services must be improved. Who administers all this training, classes, psych exams (WHOH...PSYCH EXAMS! hahahaha) and how do they do it? Liability insurance is a great way to sue firearms manufacturers and their supporters out of business. Bub...respectfully...you place WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to much faith, power, money, belief in competency, etc...in Big Brother, The State, which, btw, the 2nd A was created to keep from becoming.
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Post by bluetrain on Apr 30, 2018 19:43:19 GMT
I never mentioned banning certain firearms. But as to the murder frenzy with people using semi-automatic weapons, get real. I do thing ownership should be better regulated. To say they are the most regulated things also doesn't ring true. All I have to do to buy a firearm is to show up with enough money, fill out two form and away I go. That's here in Virginia. It used to be more difficult. So they really aren't well-regulated at all.
As far a psychological exams, that sounds too open-ended. That's like having someone decide if you're too fat or not. I also question the value of training, since Driver's Ed in schools is about ten years too late, most kids having spend their entire childhood watching one of their parents drive. Firearms are simply not that complicated. A sewing machine is more difficult to use.
I don't believe the 2nd Amendment was included to allow the people to overthrow the government. That's ridiculous. It's there to defend the government, not to overthrow the results of the election. There was a belief that the militia, which had existed since the first settlements were established, could replace a standing army. They didn't trust standing armies but it turned out that the militia at the time were very poor as a military force, although its value improved over the decades. The militia had not been a voluntary force, nor were they private armies.
Perhaps we should also work on preventing Joe Snuffy from being fired, too.
So, how's the starter revolver project coming along?
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 21:19:21 GMT
I never mentioned banning certain firearms. But as to the murder frenzy with people using semi-automatic weapons, get real. I do thing ownership should be better regulated. To say they are the most regulated things also doesn't ring true. All I have to do to buy a firearm is to show up with enough money, fill out two form and away I go. That's here in Virginia. It used to be more difficult. So they really aren't well-regulated at all. As far a psychological exams, that sounds too open-ended. That's like having someone decide if you're too fat or not. I also question the value of training, since Driver's Ed in schools is about ten years too late, most kids having spend their entire childhood watching one of their parents drive. Firearms are simply not that complicated. A sewing machine is more difficult to use. I don't believe the 2nd Amendment was included to allow the people to overthrow the government. That's ridiculous. It's there to defend the government, not to overthrow the results of the election. There was a belief that the militia, which had existed since the first settlements were established, could replace a standing army. They didn't trust standing armies but it turned out that the militia at the time were very poor as a military force, although its value improved over the decades. The militia had not been a voluntary force, nor were they private armies. Perhaps we should also work on preventing Joe Snuffy from being fired, too. So, how's the starter revolver project coming along? Not sure if you believe there's a "murder frenzy" of people using semi RIFLES or not. The statistical empirical evidence shows GANGS WITH HANDGUNS are the homicide problem. Better regulation is always a worthy goal, so total agreement on that, but exact details are the question. Gangs, mental health, neighborhood/societal communication will help reduce lone wolf, man bites dog incidents. Lets just say 2nd A does many things (including offer home defense and dealing with potential disaster situations where govt. is overloaded), regardless of our quibbling over its exact nature. We, the citizenry (my opinion, of course) are the militia, not to overthrow govt, but to check those potential future tyrannical govt. entities who would, as that structure would no longer be a Republic. I think we aren't very far off in our opinions, at any rate. Ruger SP 101 with 3" barrel would be my #1 pick.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 30, 2018 21:35:26 GMT
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 22:00:42 GMT
Nasty things they are, and worse than the dreaded pepper due to the sodium.
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on Apr 30, 2018 22:12:14 GMT
Okaaaaaay, well back on revolvers, there are some good sales coming up. Usually after spring and the beginning of summer, the big dogs (Smith & Wesson, Ruger....etc) let go of the inventory from the previous year, so keep your eyes peeled Gents!
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Post by howler on Apr 30, 2018 23:14:59 GMT
Okaaaaaay, well back on revolvers, there are some good sales coming up. Usually after spring and the beginning of summer, the big dogs (Smith & Wesson, Ruger....etc) let go of the inventory from the previous year, so keep your eyes peeled Gents! No, Tony, we have ONLY BEGUN the discussion about salt shakers. I kid, of course.
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Post by Croccifixio on May 1, 2018 1:15:29 GMT
What about Kimber revolver guys? What’s the take on their K series? I know their 1911s are mostly good but can also be polarizing, but the revolvers?
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tonystark
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Post by tonystark on May 1, 2018 2:06:37 GMT
But I had two packages of Ramen today, and my blood pressure IS at near-fatal levels. Even talking about salt could very well do me in!! 😏🤣
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