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Post by whiteshield on Mar 31, 2018 11:32:15 GMT
Most of my swords are threaded. Are peened swords really better than threaded ones?
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Post by demonskull on Mar 31, 2018 12:29:29 GMT
Most of my swords are threaded. Are peened swords really better than threaded ones? Yes and no. Peened are better when your talking historical. They don't loosen easily and when they do a couple of well placed strikes with a peen hammer or similar will tighten them right up. They also keep your pommel aligned, think wheel, Viking, ring hilt. A threaded pommel when tightened may turn the pommel on an angle to the blade. They make customization a little more difficult than a threaded pommel. Threaded are easy to tighten, just twist. They are easy to disassemble, making it easier to clean or customize. They are not historically correct and unless your pommel is totally symmetrical, when it needs tightening there is a good chance it will not lineup. Short answer: it's a toss up as to if and how you plan on using your sword. You might also look into a keyed pommel, it alleviates some of the issues of a threaded pommel but isn't offered on too many swords and is not historically correct either. Welcome to the forum
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 31, 2018 15:03:25 GMT
I would say one is no better than the other. Certainly each has their advantages. I prefer threaded simply because of the ease of maintenance. Most, if not all, of the issues associated with a threaded pommel can be overcome. If the nut continues to loosen a drop of Loctite will fix the problem. At times the wood will change size causing the pommel to misalign or looseness. Generally there is not much change in the wood so is easy to fix. If contraction a twist of the nut, or small spacer at one or both ends of grip if pommel misaligns. I have a peened sword that the grip is lose, not much but I can feel it. The metal is fast, I cannot move in the least, only the wood core grip. I suspect the wood channel for the tang has contracted. It’s not bad enough at the moment to attempt a repair but if threaded it would be a snap. This one requires some thinking.
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Post by brotherbanzai on Mar 31, 2018 15:10:42 GMT
In most cases, but not necessarily with each and every sword type, peened is better. However, only if it is a properly done peen. Also, it doesn't really have anything to do with the actual peen or threading, it has to do with the interface of the tang and pommel where the tang enters the pommel and inside the pommel rather than at the very end where the peen or thread is.
A properly done peen has the tang keyed to the pommel, meaning the tang has a rectangular cross section as it enters the pommel rather than being cylindrical. The tang is wider than it is thick, generally by a good bit, and then tapers through the length of the pommel. This takes a lot more work in the fitting of the pommel to the tang than just drilling a hole does, which is why it's done much less often on production swords.
It's better because the point where the pommel and tang come together is under a lot of stress when a blade makes impact on a resistant object, the sudden change in direction of the pommel puts a lot of strain on the end of the tang. The main strain isn't along the length of the blade where the main danger would be the pommel sliding off the end of the tang, if that were the potential issue, a threaded pommel would be fine. The strain is in a back and forth direction "edge to edge" with the problem being the pommel potentially snapping off where it meets the tang. For this reason, a keyed pommel is more secure, and because you can't thread a keyed pommel, a peened pommel is seen a s better than threaded.
It is important to understand that it really isn't the threaded end or the peened end that makes the difference though. A pommel can have a keyed slot for a tang and then the end of the tang can be threaded at the end with a pommel nut securing it to the tang. A pommel can have a round hole drilled through it with a cylindrical section of the tang going all the way through it which is then peened at the end. Comparing these two particular examples of threaded and peened, the first example with a threaded end is superior to the second which is peened.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on Mar 31, 2018 18:31:58 GMT
Properly peened is better, no doubt in my mind. The argument of easier maintenace is flawed, a properly assembled and peened construction doesn't need any maintenance. Guard and pommel stay in place on their own, the wooden grip does practically nothing structurally, it just gives something for the hands to grasp. The wood can expand or shrink as it wants, nothing can loosen up except maybe the grip itself and in that case, it probably wasn't well epoxied on ;)
The reason threated is seen as easier for maintenace stems from people's experience with poorly assembled swords with a peened construction (Windlass, etc). If the peen and everything else is crappy and losens up then yes, threated means you can try to fix the shoddy workmanship more easily but that's all.
The only exception I might see for certain blunt practice swords (including fencing foils, etc). Wearing out blades is a potential problem there and in that case, you can replace the blade easily, not so the case with a peened construction.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Mar 31, 2018 20:11:12 GMT
The reason threated is seen as easier for maintenace stems from people's experience with poorly assembled swords with a peened construction (Windlass, etc). If the peen and everything else is crappy and losens up then yes, threated means you can try to fix the shoddy workmanship more easily but that's all. Until recently I’ve profiled, sharpened and resharpened blades using sandpaper. And I prefer the paper to be stationary and move the blade over the paper. This gets awkward, at least for me, with all that junk hung on the hilt end. In that case I move the paper over a stationary blade. I now have a Work Sharp KO model and have only sharpened with it. And this works better than the old method when the sword is intact. I had intended buying the blade grinding attachment this month but saw a sword I’d been eyeing on sale, so... Not a big thing at the moment as I have no profiling to do. The profiling is a little much for the KO version. So things may change for me in that respect. Also in my price range I think it iffy to purchase a properly peened sword. I would expect this on a sword by a reputable smith. Most of mine are Windlasses. I do have a few others such as Universal and Hanwei. All of which I pay for what a better grade sword would cost someone in a different location. By the time I pay shipping and customs', even lawyer fees at times, the price more than doubles and even triples.
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Post by Cosmoline on Apr 2, 2018 16:31:46 GMT
Most of my swords are threaded. Are peened swords really better than threaded ones? Yes and no. Peened are better when your talking historical. There is evidence of threaded pommels by the 15th in at least one text*, but no surviving blades I know of until the 17th. So they are historical for late period. *Regardless of whether you think the technique in Gladiatoria is bogus, there's virtually no chance the author invented the concept of a threaded pommel for purposes of that joke. So it's safe to say esp. based on the confirmed use in subsequent centuries that there were at least some threaded pommels.
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Post by leviathansteak on Apr 4, 2018 10:23:10 GMT
I have a strong preference for peened pommels due to historical accuracy. Yes threaded pommels may have existed but i havent seen any extant medieval examples. As lukas mg states, a peened sword done properly would never need to be taken apart. Changing the wooden grip can be done without disassembling other hilt components. I do see one benefit of threaded pommels- much easier to customise and switch out fittings!
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