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Post by spikeynorman47 on Mar 20, 2018 14:42:58 GMT
When facing taller opponents or just generally being short, would you guys and gals say its better to use a shorter sword like a messer/falchion/gladius? Or would it be smarter to use a longer sword?
I'm strictly speaking swords here, as I expect even if you're super short your spear or halberd is your primary weapon.
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Post by Cosmoline on Mar 20, 2018 16:23:54 GMT
Your ability to reach out and attack is more a matter of training than inherent size. One thing I've noticed is that the measure of new students--tall and short alike--greatly increases with the first year of training. At the beginning they will have a compromised structure and cut quite close to their bodies. By the end of the first year they're able to hit a foot or more further out. Some of it is shoulder and arm strength improvement, but mostly it's matter of understanding how to attack with the whole body.
Also while it's generally preferable to have a longer weapon, a two handed weapon often has no more reach than a single handed one. A messer in one hand can even outreach a longsword in two.
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Post by Adventurer'sBlade on Mar 20, 2018 16:48:01 GMT
I am short and prefer shorter swords for recreational cutting and outdoor expeditions, but there is no combat benefit to them unless in very tight spaces - but that applies to people of all sizes.
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Ifrit
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More edgy than a double edge sword
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Post by Ifrit on Mar 20, 2018 19:53:42 GMT
Definitely a longer sword. Maybe an Estoc if weight is an issue
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
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Post by christain on Mar 20, 2018 23:31:48 GMT
I only stand about 5'-7'' in boots, and I find that a hand-n-a half sword that I can hold in the 1-handed, 2-handed, or half-sword grips is almost perfect. If I can't take 'em out from the head or upper body, I can damn sure take their legs out. Some of that Hobbitt training.
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Post by leviathansteak on Mar 20, 2018 23:38:57 GMT
Depends a little on what the other guy has, but id lean toward a longer weapon such as a rapier, and also long compared to your proportions. If you're short, a shield or buckler is a good way to close range to your tall opponent.
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christain
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It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on Mar 21, 2018 0:08:11 GMT
Yeah, a good buckler is always a good idea. I'm in the process of a custom built buckler (by yours truly) at this very moment.
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Post by spikeynorman47 on Mar 21, 2018 0:20:52 GMT
I only stand about 5'-7'' in boots, and I find that a hand-n-a half sword that I can hold in the 1-handed, 2-handed, or half-sword grips is almost perfect. If I can't take 'em out from the head or upper body, I can damn sure take their legs out. Some of that Hobbitt training. Yea I understand completely, I'm 5'8" though I've never used a proper hand and a half sword, I have a full length longsword and arming sword. And I love using shields in sparring, but my friend is shorter than me so I can for once be the tall one generally I'm shorter than every one else, and I'd imagine in a "real situation" I'd likely be shorter. Do you also find it better to use a falchion or messer or cutlass type blade with a shield and close distance? Or rather a longer weapon and shield?
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Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 21, 2018 0:21:03 GMT
I'm gonna go ahead and propose that shorter folks should use a normal sized cut and thrust sword along with a buckler. Why try to beat tall people at their own game? That's a lesson I learned fencing against people who were all taller than me. When used a sabre I could close in and cut as long as I kept the offensive. If I kept my distance I would get hit because I just could offend them.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 21, 2018 1:37:40 GMT
Use whatever inspires you and learn everything you can about it. Apply yourself as best you can, work with the best people you can find, and never stop learning.
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Post by spikeynorman47 on Mar 21, 2018 1:57:42 GMT
I'm gonna go ahead and propose that shorter folks should use a normal sized cut and thrust sword along with a buckler. Why try to beat tall people at their own game? That's a lesson I learned fencing against people who were all taller than me. When used a sabre I could close in and cut as long as I kept the offensive. If I kept my distance I would get hit because I just could offend them. This makes perfect sense to me. I was thinking you cant beat someone with superior reach with reach so why bother? I just wanted others opinions as well. Would you say a falchion works in this way too? It's a little shorter than the norm but, I feel it's blade presence gives it a great advantage in the bind and blocking with a shield.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Mar 21, 2018 1:59:52 GMT
I'm gonna go ahead and propose that shorter folks should use a normal sized cut and thrust sword along with a buckler. Why try to beat tall people at their own game? That's a lesson I learned fencing against people who were all taller than me. When used a sabre I could close in and cut as long as I kept the offensive. If I kept my distance I would get hit because I just could offend them. This makes perfect sense to me. I was thinking you cant beat someone with superior reach with reach so why bother? I just wanted others opinions as well. Would you say a falchion works in this way too? It's a little shorter than the norm but, I feel it's blade presence gives it a great advantage in the bind and blocking with a shield. I never used a falchion but also never used my sabre like a falchion. I studied the US 1872 officers manual and used a 32 inch blade spadroon or sabre against sword and shield, sword and buckler, and longsword. Sword and buckler was the most difficult to fence against.
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JakeH
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Post by JakeH on Mar 21, 2018 3:22:41 GMT
As others have already alluded, while the weapon can have some influence, I think it's more important to 'fight your own fight'. Don't try and fight the other guy's fight. Jordan describes this well.
I had a fine example a couple months ago with two of my broadsword students...
These two are as far apart in measure as two normal-sized people can be. The first couple rounds Mr.Tall was fully in control and Ms.Small was hopelessly out of measure trying to fight at his distance. I'd mentioned previously the importance of using your own distance, but let it go to create a 'teachable moment'. Make mistakes, learn, do better.
A couple words in her ear and the next round she closed right up to HER effective range. She was so completely in his grill that he was jammed up and could barely move while she was operating quite naturally. Full reversal of outcome. It's admittedly artificial because I wasn't allowing them grappling, but it still shows that just fighting your own fight can have a dramatic impact.
Most importantly, going toe to toe with the biggest guy in the club was a big confidence boost for Ms.Short who needed it just then so I'm pleased with the outcome all in all.
Jake
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Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 21, 2018 4:26:23 GMT
Problem with giving a short person a short weapon is you exaggerate their disadvantage. For the most part, its better to be the taller one in a fight, but its not an overwhelming advantage.
One of the best weapons for a short person is a spear, but if we're sticking to swords I'd say a longsword or rapier. The stereotype with longswords is you have to be big and strong to use them, but the truth is a lot of single handed swords require a good deal more strength. Longswords long two hand grip easily makes up for their slightly higher weight.
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Post by coldnapalm on Apr 3, 2018 1:36:55 GMT
The length of a weapon is an issue other than just weight. A short person wielding a sword too long for them will have a hard time recovering the weapon. That isn't to say a shortsword is the best option for a 5 ft tall girl. But giving said 5 ft tall girl a 44 inch rapier that weights 2.5 lbs won't solve the issue of her lack of reach as it will introduce a whole slew of other issues...even if weight isn't one of the issues. There are styles that will minimize the weakness of lack of reach for a short person...but the weapon used for that person should be sized for that person and giving them just longer weapons isn't a good solution.
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Post by Dalin Caulder on Jun 6, 2018 17:59:10 GMT
As a shorter fencer, I use my size to my advantage. Taller fencers or just guys with semprini envy (really long swords), want to fight on the outside. Take the fight to the inside, whether I am using a shorter Messer/Hand and Half/Broadsword or a 37-40" rapier. I take the fight to the inside. They struggle in close.
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Post by Wes Cameron on Jun 6, 2018 23:25:38 GMT
As a shorter fencer, I use my size to my advantage. Taller fencers or just guys with (censored) envy (really long swords), want to fight on the outside. Take the fight to the inside, whether I am using a shorter Messer/Hand and Half/Broadsword or a 37-40" rapier. I take the fight to the inside. They struggle in close. I don't find this to be true, at least in my case. I'm tall and can fight just as well inside as outside. I hope the comment about envy is your attempt at humor.
As far as the OP, I find that it is best to fit the sword to the person so they can perform optimally with it. In the end it matters not how tall one is or the size of the weapon (to an extent), but what is important is one's 'skill' as a fighter.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jun 7, 2018 3:32:14 GMT
I’ll agree with Jake when he says “fight your own fight”. I think the consciences is to use longer blades. As for me and a few others, I go for shorter blades and get in close. I am 5’9” and prefer blades in the 20” range topping out at 30”. I find a shield of some type advantageous. I started on my third shield earlier this week after two years of procrastinating and am excited over that.
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Post by Dalin Caulder on Jun 7, 2018 13:40:58 GMT
As a shorter fencer, I use my size to my advantage. Taller fencers or just guys with (censored) envy (really long swords), want to fight on the outside. Take the fight to the inside, whether I am using a shorter Messer/Hand and Half/Broadsword or a 37-40" rapier. I take the fight to the inside. They struggle in close. I don't find this to be true, at least in my case. I'm tall and can fight just as well inside as outside. I hope the comment about envy is your attempt at humor.
As far as the OP, I find that it is best to fit the sword to the person so they can perform optimally with it. In the end it matters not how tall one is or the size of the weapon (to an extent), but what is important is one's 'skill' as a fighter.Yeah, I was just being funny. I do find many people sword fighting with longer swords (or longer reach) tend to prefer the fight on the outside and have less skill (or ability to counter my shortness) on the inside. It isn't always the case, but more often then not I find I am better served fighting in close (or even medium range) then fighting the outside. Also I was taught ( a bunch of years ago) while fighting in the SCA that fighting from the outside I am out of range while the taller fighter is in range, thereby putting me at a disadvantage (They can hit me in one motion I have to take 2 motions to hit them) by getting inside you do 2 things against a longer blade. 1. You are able to hit them in one motion, 2. I have taken away any advantage they had from taking up the longer sword (this mainly applies to thrust centric fighting), but can be applied elsewhere.
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Post by wlewisiii on Jun 8, 2018 4:47:25 GMT
As a shorter fencer, I use my size to my advantage. Taller fencers or just guys with (censored) envy (really long swords), want to fight on the outside. Take the fight to the inside, whether I am using a shorter Messer/Hand and Half/Broadsword or a 37-40" rapier. I take the fight to the inside. They struggle in close. I think I get what you're saying but I'd also argue that the situation you describe is where the idea of the off-hand dagger/buckler comes from. I'd rather a buckler against the usual fairly evenly matched opponents but if you were significantly shorter when I was faced by you, I'd far rather an off-hand dagger. I have a nice fixed blade double edged 10"blade dagger (Devil's Edge Arkansas Toothpick) that would be very sweet offhand against the usual rapier, for example. Either will work well against the close attack.
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