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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 14, 2018 1:11:44 GMT
Are there any moves in JSA using the edge of the blade to parry? Any edge-on-edge contact between blades? Or is it all parry with the flat? Just curious.
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Post by MLanteigne on Feb 14, 2018 1:21:55 GMT
In Katori Shinto Ryu we use edge on edge, edge on side, edge on spine. I think its folly to assume in a combat scenario that a person can only use one part of the sword to block. There are examples of katana in the Royal Ontario Museum with edge damage below the monouchi.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 4:17:30 GMT
Sure, the very first iai technique I ever learned was cutting into an attack to knock the other guy's sword offline (ideally catching his head with that same cut) and open him up for the immediate second cut while he's recovering.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 14, 2018 7:42:50 GMT
I feel like its the most logical step, due to body mechanics. I have never been taught otherwise, and truth be told, I don't think I would ever not do edge parry
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Feb 14, 2018 8:35:11 GMT
Are there any moves in JSA using the edge of the blade to parry? Any edge-on-edge contact between blades? Or is it all parry with the flat? Just curious. While a mere JSA dabbler rather than practitioner, there's plenty of relevant video out there. Parrying with the edge is common; often against the opponent's flat (to deflect their sword, rather than to stop it, just as one often does in WSA and CSA). Edge-on-edge contact is there, too, because sometimes you can't just deflect their sword but need to stop it.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 14, 2018 13:09:37 GMT
I feel like its the most logical step, due to body mechanics. I have never been taught otherwise, and truth be told, I don't think I would ever not do edge parry This gets tossed out all the time. Hold your sword. Rotate it 90 degrees in your hand. What's wrong with the body mechanics using the flat? Rotate the sword another 90 degrees in your hand. What's wrong with the body mechanics using the mune?
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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 14, 2018 20:16:04 GMT
Okay, cool; thanks everybody. Awesome video too Timo.
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 15, 2018 1:27:04 GMT
I feel like its the most logical step, due to body mechanics. I have never been taught otherwise, and truth be told, I don't think I would ever not do edge parry This gets tossed out all the time. Hold your sword. Rotate it 90 degrees in your hand. What's wrong with the body mechanics using the flat? Rotate the sword another 90 degrees in your hand. What's wrong with the body mechanics using the mune? I would have to get into sparring again to get back to these questions. As of right now, I have never attempted it in practice yet
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 3:42:19 GMT
I'm not really seeing how sparring factors one way or another, a good mechanic is a good mechanic whether you're working by yourself or with / against another person. Whether it's the right thing to do at a given time I'll fully agree that is contextual, but the mechanic itself shouldn't be. But this is veering well off topic and I imagine whenever you get around to giving it a shot you'll see what I'm getting at.
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Post by zabazagobo on Feb 15, 2018 5:36:58 GMT
Edge on edge is only really useful for when you try to bit into the other blade to stop it dead and move it aside, I think of it kind of like grinding teeth, only with swords. The technique Jon Frances mentioned is a solid one, and what Timo mentioned regarding collision with the blade flat to swat the opponent away is smart as it generates solid force.
But in most cases the flat is the way to go
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Ifrit
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Post by Ifrit on Feb 15, 2018 20:02:06 GMT
I'm not really seeing how sparring factors one way or another, a good mechanic is a good mechanic whether you're working by yourself or with / against another person. Whether it's the right thing to do at a given time I'll fully agree that is contextual, but the mechanic itself shouldn't be. But this is veering well off topic and I imagine whenever you get around to giving it a shot you'll see what I'm getting at. It's more or less the additional time it would take, which isn't much, but using the edge is something I know I can rely on my reflexes for. I feel it would take additional training to have the flat or spine be a reflex in the same way
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Post by Deleted on Feb 15, 2018 20:36:16 GMT
It takes longer to move your blade to intercept his than it does to rotate, and you can rotate the blade as you move it to intercept.
It doesn't take longer to take a step while saying hello than it does to just take a step, you do both actions concurrently. If you break it into sequential actions (rotate-then-position or position-then-rotate) sure but thats inefficient time management.
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Post by MLanteigne on Feb 16, 2018 16:09:08 GMT
Just curious for those commentating, what everyone's training backround is? Western or Eastern?
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Post by Cosmoline on Feb 16, 2018 17:21:16 GMT
The question was for JSA folks. I don't think this is getting into western sword at all.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2018 18:31:06 GMT
Formal instruction in both.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Feb 16, 2018 21:22:33 GMT
The question was for JSA folks. I don't think this is getting into western sword at all. Yep, the question was just regarding JSA, not HEMA or any other martial art.
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Post by MLanteigne on Feb 17, 2018 6:49:55 GMT
Lots of vague answers lol.
How many of you are studying or have studied a koryu school?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2018 15:22:26 GMT
The iai technique I described earlier was absolutely not Koryu™ without question regardless of how some of it's adherents or instructors characterize it. No longer involved with that one, but the question was about JSA. It was / is an art involving Japanese Swords, but not a Japanese Art, and it used the edge of the blade to parry in at least one spot so I felt like it was relevant to bring up.
At this point, I don't know or particularly care if the one I am currently studying is Koryu™. I know who my teacher is, I know who his teacher was, and I wasn't around for the one before him.
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Post by MLanteigne on Feb 18, 2018 14:11:59 GMT
The reason I asked Jon is because a study of Iai is no more a complete study of swordsmanship than calling four tires and a steering wheel a car. There are major parts missing. Having done Iaido under the CKF and now studying a koryu school is night and day different and has highlighted all of the elements missing in modern Iaido.
Your example before, where you talking about Uke Nagashi?
In any case I would be leery about using techniques from Iaido as a measure of how "blocking" occured.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 18, 2018 15:11:22 GMT
We're not talking about a complete study of swordsmanship here though, Mr. Legacyofthesword wanted to know about using the edge of the sword to parry and edge-on-edge interaction, and that was a quick example I could think of.
A quick youtube search for nami ryu iaijutsu kata should show several examples of their first iaijutsu kata / kata 1 / ippon me, for the curious. It seemed to me to be an example of what Legacyofthesword might have been looking for. Further discussion of that system is an "over beers" kind of thing for me at this point as I have had no involvement for several years and have since moved on to something that is a better fit.
I think the best way to study blocking is to have someone pick up a sword and swing it at you.
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