Aikidoka
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Monstrous monk in training...
Posts: 1,451
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Post by Aikidoka on Feb 13, 2018 1:17:09 GMT
Yes, I agree with that. My vote would be through-hardened (mono-tempered) and fully double edged. The more I look at it, the more I like this design
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Post by dchisenh on Feb 13, 2018 1:38:27 GMT
Well, I think there's been a lot of good points already raised in this thread, but I'd like to echo a few since they really hit home with me.
I don't think short swords sell as well as larger ones, like others have mentioned; especially so for basic choppers without scabbards. There IS a market for those swords (like someone mentioned, preppers and the like), but these are overpriced for them.
I understand the logistical reason why y'all went with basic-styled short swords that are just variations on already produced models, but without the fantasy world behind them, practically speaking they're not worth it. I'm not trying to be harsh, but when I'm looking at a sword and I have a limited budget, if I'm not emotionally-invested in the fantasy world, the 'standard' model wins every time.
On the exact opposite side of the argument, the Odin's Oar was well targeted and priced, even if that is a small market. It's WAY outside my sword budget, but it hit a good spot for design and name-brand quality (i.e. resale value, if needed). When someone spends that much on a work of art, it's an investment. Bringing in licensed versions of other high-dollar swords would appeal to that same market, but again...it's limited in size so I wouldn't expect many sales.
The general market for swords, like a lot of discretionary spending 'hobby' items, is still slow right now because even though the economy is improving, most folks still don't have the cash to spare. I think the "Walking Dead"/"Game of Thrones" bump given to the sword economy has stalled and isn't providing the new buyers like it used to.
Ironically, that's where I had thought this fantasy world + sword idea would have done well. I remember when it first started, there was a good bit of interest here on the board, with a lot of wild brainstorming and engagement. But, as time went on, I got the impression that Paul had already decided the majority of fantasy world's details and just added a few contest winners ideas on stories after the fact. It became less interactive than I had imagined, so I stepped aside, waiting to see what others would do. I heard so little about it since then, I had forgotten about it until recently. I'm a little shocked that swords are being offered without the establishment of the fantasy world...that's putting the cart before the horse, in my mind.
I'm glad Sev posted some other work in progress pictures, like I told him originally, that Castir is my favorite and I still want to buy one; the only problem is seeing how these first few short swords are priced, I'll likely be unable to afford one.
Going forward, my suggestions would be to 1) get some more real-life reviews with detailed stats out there, 2) get the fantasy world out there more to generate interest in the swords, 3) consider a lower priced non-runic version of the goblin king sword and the other two Scorpion-produced designs marketed towards the prepper community directly though their forums, 4) keep in mind current market when setting prices...while I like the Castir a LOT, if it's $500-600+ without a scabbard and without an established fantasy world, the Ronin Alexandria will be getting my money instead.
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Post by zabazagobo on Feb 13, 2018 3:49:26 GMT
That looks amazing, really dig the color scheme. Blade looks really well done too, very impressive geometry near the tip.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 13, 2018 4:11:12 GMT
maybe send one of the scorpion swords to skallagrim or something or someone to do a review on it with some hard abusive testing, im just thinking skallagrim because he has the largest audience. I vote the Orc King Cleaver, but if serious tho just send all 3, i think this would be a good investment for a ton of exposure
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 13, 2018 4:18:24 GMT
Skall generally dislikes fantasy weapons so I would go there with caution. And given the feedback here, he might have a lot to say about the swords.
But the brutal truth might do everyone a lot of good, and might even get the swords exposure they would not have otherwise
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 13, 2018 4:19:54 GMT
Skall generally dislikes fantasy weapons so I would go there with caution. And given the feedback here, he might have a lot to say about the swords. I think any press would be good press tbh, as long as skall is partial about it, i think it would be good, he does not like katanas but when he reviews one generally its positive even that 1 time he did the dsa feanor it started out positive, tho it went downhill real fast from there lol
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 4:37:25 GMT
Seeing a couple mentions about using more famous designers (like John did with the Odin's Oar for this very fantasy project), I want to follow up with a couple questions (and this is purely out of curiosity and not based on any discussion I've had with Paul): 1. Would you be willing to save up to buy a higher end, expert designed and manufactured fantasy piece? 2. If so, what would your cap be for something high end, assuming there was ample time given to allow you to save up? Do you tap out at $1200? $2000? $3000? Gimme dat sword and you can have my kidneys? 3. Since there was some mention of not being invested in this particular fantasy world yet, would it help if legendary existing designs in the sword community (purely for example, something like John's Celtic Wolf or Sword of Peru, or any of Jake Powning's pieces) were licensed to be tied into the fantasy world? Any market data helps, especially with this pretty painful slowdown of the sword market of late. Answers to quoted post questions: 1. Yes 2. Truthfully, right now can only commit to $100 per month for $1,200 total over 12 months. 3. Yes. If a portion of funds go to SBG, I would buy this sword before other planned purchases. Great post. Prior to making anything and during the prototype phase, "....Market Data Helps". I was not aware of the sword design contest until it was over. However, with over 6,000 members and hundreds of active members, focused questions and polls would shed light upon sword designs that would sell. Maybe this already happened and I missed it? Maybe few responded as few do in the giveaway contests? From my indepth research on this site (it's in my nature to do so), I have seen what most want, what most buy and the many niche interests. It's interesting to see many posts echo what I PM'd Admin. As far as "Fantasy", it appears most want and buy, a sword based off medieval /historical designs - long double edge blade with proper profile and distal taper of quality steel, cross guard, wood core wrapped grip, strong tang and peened pommel, with something unique to it, which is often subtle, but critical to sword lovers. Those able and or willing to pay and wait, buy from high end custom makers, those with less cash and or unwilling to pay alot, and or not willing to wait a year o r more, buy from mass produces that have designs as close to the above description as possible and may have it customized as they can. Sell ads are a different story of course (Can't wait and have the money for high end or wanting a bargain or cheap bastard). For example, this design (Vorpal) could sell with some tweeks: This design has a very wide blade base in relation to the grip width, with mega profile taper. Look familiar? Its similar to the pending and very coveted, Ronin Katana "Harriet Dean"/Alexandria and the Albion Alexandria/Principe. Here is a prototype Vopal: It is a nice sword however, the blade base needs to be wider and the grip needs to be a little narrower to match an appealing aspect of the original design. The colors are nice for niche tastes, but to appeal to more buyers, colors like black, or oxblood, etc. would be better.
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Post by dchisenh on Feb 13, 2018 4:57:50 GMT
I thought the same thing as Blade Runner when I saw the finished Vorpal Sword. It's a nice sword, but isn't wide enough at the base to match the original illustration, and (he hit the nail on the head) the Alexandria.
The blue and gold isn't bad, but he's right on the colors too. Black or brown will likely sell best, followed by oxblood/red.
I like the finished design, but for some reason whenever I look at it I can't help but think of the old Windlass Castillon.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 13, 2018 5:03:52 GMT
I thought the same thing as Blade Runner when I saw the finished Vorpal Sword. It's a nice sword, but isn't wide enough at the base to match the original illustration, and (he hit the nail on the head) the Alexandria. The blue and gold isn't bad, but he's right on the colors too. Black or brown will likely sell best, followed by oxblood/red. I like the finished design, but for some reason whenever I look at it I can't help but think of the old Windlass Castillon. the windlass castillion was much thinner, im pretty sure some alterations to the designs were made to keep costs down, a wider blade and a longer leaf blade would probably cost more to produce and maybe the asking price for each one would be substantially higher for both, while this one does look closer to the original design, the Danu is most guilty of being altered, it looks almost nothing like the original, its so stubby and fat when the original was more slender and elegant
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sevicler
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Post by sevicler on Feb 13, 2018 5:10:17 GMT
Seeing a couple mentions about using more famous designers (like John did with the Odin's Oar for this very fantasy project), I want to follow up with a couple questions (and this is purely out of curiosity and not based on any discussion I've had with Paul): 1. Would you be willing to save up to buy a higher end, expert designed and manufactured fantasy piece? 2. If so, what would your cap be for something high end, assuming there was ample time given to allow you to save up? Do you tap out at $1200? $2000? $3000? Gimme dat sword and you can have my kidneys? 3. Since there was some mention of not being invested in this particular fantasy world yet, would it help if legendary existing designs in the sword community (purely for example, something like John's Celtic Wolf or Sword of Peru, or any of Jake Powning's pieces) were licensed to be tied into the fantasy world? Any market data helps, especially with this pretty painful slowdown of the sword market of late. Great post. Prior to making anything and during the prototype phase, "....Market Data Helps". I was not aware of the sword design contest until it was over. However, with over 6,000 members and hundreds of active members, focused questions and polls would shed light upon sword designs that would sell. Maybe this already happened and I missed it? Maybe few responded as few do in the giveaway contests? From my indepth research on this site (it's in my nature to do so), I have seen what most want, what most buy and the many niche interests. It's interesting to see many posts echo what I PM'd Admin. As far as "Fantasy", it appears most want and buy, a sword based off medieval /historical designs - long double edge blade with proper profile and distal taper of quality steel, cross guard, wood core wrapped grip, strong tang and peened pommel, with something unique to it, which is often subtle, but critical to sword lovers. Those able and or willing to pay and wait, buy from high end custom makers, those with less cash and or unwilling to pay alot, and or not willing to wait a year o r more, buy from mass produces that have designs as close to the above description as possible and may have it customized as they can. Sell ads are a different story of course (Can't wait and have the money for high end or wanting a bargain or cheap bastard). For example, this design (Vorpal) could sell with some tweeks: This design has a very wide blade base in relation to the grip width, with mega profile taper. Look familiar? Its similar to the pending and very coveted, Ronin Katana "Harriet Dean"/Alexandria and the Albion Alexandria/Principe. Here is a prototype Vopal: It is a nice sword however, the blade base needs to be wider and the grip needs to be a little narrower to match an appealing aspect of the original design. The colors are nice for niche tastes, but to appeal to more buyers, colors like black, or oxblood, etc. would be better. Not entirely sure if you know, but Admin/Paul never really opens his PM box anymore. Try emailing him instead.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 5:41:32 GMT
That explains alot servicer. dchris I love that pic of your dog. Me love dogs. Storm - Nice Cluny pic. Thanks guys. As far as market data, I found comments from Albion that, of all their sword designs, their most popular sword (at one time) was the Baron. Therefore, I just knew that, at least one SBG Fantasy Sword competition winner, would be a sword design originating from a Great Sword/Baron XIIa type with a wide base blade. ....I can't find them, but I know years ago SBG sold some fantasy swords based off medieval designs. One member here who would really know what members would buy is the global moderator, Swiger. He has been here a long time and has seen and collected everything. ....and when we talk fantasy for the masses, what are we really saying?......a good long blade, tweeked guard and tweeked pommel and your done! ....Now that Ronin has the pending Alexandria at a nice price with no wait, when will they produce a XIIa with a wide blade base i.e. Great Sword/Baron type sword? Maybe they could produce one for the SBG Fantasy Project. That would rock....and sell!
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Post by tancred on Feb 13, 2018 6:44:30 GMT
Hey Guys, According to the limited feedback on this thread and the actual review of the Goblin King Sword here I would have thought that these swords would have been at least a LITTLE bit popular.. But sadly, despite offering a limited pre-launch of the these three swords and promoting it via the Sword Buyers Digest to 15,000 subscribers and 6,000 members of the store newsletter, we have sold just one of each design..
So my question is, why are these just not on anyone's radar?They are hand made in the USA by Chris Palmer who is a Manufacturer and Vendor of many years good standing at the forums, were designed by forum members, and are priced just below or just slightly above the $300 price point. Yet, for some weird reason, the silence is deafening.. As we were hoping to use the meager profits from the sale of these swords to get the necessary funds to actually launch the dedicated website (which also has a LOT of input and work from SBG members) and cover the cost of actually making the swords and sending them out free to the people who designed them. it is quite disheartening to say the least and does not bode well for the project generally.. So if you like the designs and have been considering, what is it that holds you back from actually pulling the trigger on them? I have priced them as low as possible, done my best to give them a compelling backstory and we all know that Chris makes really tough, fully functional blades.. So what is it that you think is the reason why no-one actually wants to buy them? Personally I am at a loss to explain it.. Any and all feedback is more than welcome - for right now we have sunk over $10,000 into the development of this project, and was hoping that we might be able to get enough funds to actually launch the thing. But alas, we are now kind of stuck in limbo.. Don't pull any punches, I need to know to make this project a success.. - Paul Hi Paul. I saw your thread within minutes of you posting it over the weekend. I was almost the first response, but it was late, and I had an early morning. I also didn't want to be a Negative Nancy. So, to answer your question about why the lack of interest, I'll just make it as simple as possible and say that fantasy swords are not my thing. Tolkien's books are my absolute favorites, but I loathe almost every other fantasy work out there. So, getting me to read or like any of the fantasy backstory involving these new SBG fantasy weapons would be nigh impossible. I also dislike the look of almost all fantasy weapons (I blame Kit Rae for flooding the market with such garish, ugly products). Even Peter Jackson's versions of LOTR and The Hobbit had poor designs (imo) throughout. For me, half the designs in PJ's LOTR were good or great (more were good than great), and half were average to terrible. It got worse in The Hobbit movies. If some designs were good, I credit John Howe's work with the design team. So, even with a long established fantasy world like Tolkien's, one that is beloved by me, I'm very picky about how things should look. If its fantastical, I probably won't like it. If its more on the historical side, I might like it. So, yeah, fantasy designs just don't do it for me. None of the designs in this thread or the brainstorming thread from late last year were to my liking. Just not my cup of tea. Which is not to say that the designs are poorly done, thought out, or anything negative like that. I really recommend and applaud the people who got creative with this, and had fun doing so. I also applaud the manufacturing companies and people who are working on the prototypes and finished products now. I really wish them well, and hope this is a success for SBG. Its just not for me.
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stormmaster
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I like viking/migration era swords
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 13, 2018 7:10:55 GMT
thanks Blade Runner its my 2nd favorite sword now I really think the 3 swords from this line could be successful if given more exposure, maybe outside just the forums, send 1 to skall or another reviewer to test out and make a review about and thousands of people will see it, even if a fraction choose to buy that is a huge success. Maybe have all the later models come with more then just a leather sheath because that turns off alot of people.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 7:49:18 GMT
Storm - Yes 100%. Marketing and more marketing....and the shorties need longer blades and all need less funky colors. Even a fantasy sword has got to look "believable".
Admin. said in part, in the opening post,
"....despite offering a limited pre-launch of the these three swords and promoting it via the Sword Buyers Digest to 15,000 subscribers and 6,000 members of the store newsletter, we have sold just one of each design.."
Don't know how many overlap, but we can say at least 15,000 sword people were exposed with no sales. Not good. Especially since Admin. is aware of their sales of other swords via Digest/news letter. To me, that indicates more than just a marketing issue, especially at tax refund season.
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Feb 13, 2018 8:21:12 GMT
Storm - Yes 100%. Marketing and more marketing....and the shorties need longer blades and all need less funky colors. Even a fantasy sword has got to look "believable". Admin. said in part, in the opening post, "....despite offering a limited pre-launch of the these three swords and promoting it via the Sword Buyers Digest to 15,000 subscribers and 6,000 members of the store newsletter, we have sold just one of each design.." Don't know how many overlap, but we can say at least 15,000 sword people were exposed with no sales. Not good. Especially since Admin. is aware of their sales of other swords via Digest/news letter. To me, that indicates more than just a marketing issue, especially at tax refund season. problem is no one knows how these swords handle and there is no other options for color and whatnot for the grip scales or blades, some people dont want completely antiqued blades or the strips on the grip of the goblin, send some for review and give minor options for customization
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 13, 2018 9:03:21 GMT
Yes. The unique designs need some fine tuning and mega exposure at least.
Also, from my own experience in business, I know this, at least part of the core problem(s) can be found drilling down in SBG annual sales data for as many years as possible.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Feb 13, 2018 11:57:23 GMT
I'm really digging that vorpal sword, depending on price I might buy. That's high praise coming from a guy who's only bought sabers so far.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on Feb 13, 2018 14:25:56 GMT
Guys, forget the ugly scabbards they're an option they don't come with the sword. That's the way all Scorpion swords are. All my swords are on display in my house and most of the scabbards are sitting in my closet never to see the light of day again. Unless you're planning to wear the sword who needs the scabbard. I would complain about the scabbards if I was forced to buy them. Getting some of these swords in testers hands would probably help but even a great review won't help sales if the sword just doesn't float your boat. I still kind of like the Orc King in spite of that 5 minute video I had to endure thinking I was going to see some kind of review. But I still think they need to tweak the price down a little because keep in mind the shipping in not included.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Feb 13, 2018 15:31:09 GMT
Guys, forget the ugly scabbards they're an option they don't come with the sword. That's the way all Scorpion swords are. All my swords are on display in my house and most of the scabbards are sitting in my closet never to see the light of day again. Unless you're planning to wear the sword who needs the scabbard. I would complain about the scabbards if I was forced to buy them. Getting some of these swords in testers hands would probably help but even a great review won't help sales if the sword just doesn't float your boat. I still kind of like the Orc King in spite of that 5 minute video I had to endure thinking I was going to see some kind of review. But I still think they need to tweak the price down a little because keep in mind the shipping in not included. I know some people dont care about scabbards and they add onto production costs. But.....for me, it is an absolute must. If a sword doesn't include a scabbard, I mentally add about $300 onto its price tag to have one custom made. Partly for storage, partly for safety, and partly cause I want swords I can wear to ren faires.
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Post by randomnobody on Feb 13, 2018 16:20:04 GMT
I won't buy a blade without some kind of sheath/scabbard/whatever. Custom, production, antique, functional, or display, if it doesn't have a cover I have nowhere to keep it safely. Kids, pets, wobbly furniture, whatever, I can't have exposed steel.
When buying a sword, with a sheath-or-whatever, I don't like the idea of paying separately. It should be bundled with the cost of the sword. Charge extra for a better one or charge less if someone doesn't want one, but I don't like paying extra for what I consider an essential part of an item.
Sure, big names do this; Albion, ATrim, etc, but I also don't buy those. Only AT I own is the old SBG special 1315, for which I emailed in about adding a sheath, since I wasn't gonna miss an Angus Trim sword under $400, even if the extra scabbard was another $80 (also discounted) for a leather sleeve. It keeps the blade covered and safe, though it hangs on a rack. Horizontally, granted.
I hadn't even considered the prospect of these swords not including some sort of cover. That certainly turns me off, or would if I'd been considering one.
I'm sure they're good blades, but they just don't match what I want and don't have what I need without adding on more cost I can't afford.
Some of the BCI stuff looks pretty good, but I probably won't be buying those, either, because money. I don't want to talk about Odin's Oar. I might have bought that, were I significantly wealthier, but even it's not really my thing.
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