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Post by swordsmithjacob on Feb 7, 2018 18:00:10 GMT
What would be a good metal substitution for the different metals used in a katana, as it is very hard for me to find traditional iron sands. Alternatively, if you have any information on how to purchase the sands used to make tamahagane, please share.
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Post by MOK on Feb 7, 2018 20:27:33 GMT
Well, basically any modern steel suitable for swordblades is functionally superior to tamahagane, so...
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Feb 7, 2018 21:22:53 GMT
What would be a good metal substitution for the different metals used in a katana, as it is very hard for me to find traditional iron sands. Alternatively, if you have any information on how to purchase the sands used to make tamahagane, please share. For a substitute, use 1070. But if you really want to do your own smelting, it's easy to find, iron sand, if you use "magnetite iron sand" as a good search term. E.g., www.amazon.com/MagZenTM-Natural-Magnetic-Magnetite-Black/dp/B01NAY2WN0/ (you'll find sellers on alibaba if you're after a ton or a few tons). The problem with doing a traditional-style smelt on a small scale is getting a good yield of steel (as opposed to low carbon iron). Some relevant discussion on smelting iron sand: www.bladeforums.com/threads/steel-smelting-question.1497351/
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Post by Croccifixio on Feb 8, 2018 6:21:24 GMT
Maybe go with powdered steel? Powdered 1095 with 15n20 in a canister would probably look a bit like tamahagane if etched.
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Post by LastGodslayer on Feb 8, 2018 11:43:29 GMT
Its hard to replicate tamahagane with modern steels. Croccifixio has the right idea. Sweedish powedered steel has been used to mimic tamahagane. The thing is, tamahagane is a lot of things... There are slag inclusions, a big mix of hipereutectoid and hipoeutectoid steels, varying levels of alloying elements, and its these things + lamination + forging and folding + heat treatment + polishing (togi) that generate the "look" of tamahagane. If you are looking for the average physical properties, then Timo is on the mark.
You can always look at advanced powdered steels for a superior functionality, but then its a nihonto in shape alone. In fact, to purists, if the blade wasn't made in Japan, from japanese satetsu, from a japanese tatara, then it isn't a nihonto at all. Its up to you how close you want to get to a true nihonto.
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Mikeeman
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Post by Mikeeman on Feb 9, 2018 18:11:43 GMT
Personally, I would use different 10XX steels. For example, if I were doing soshu kitae, I might use 1045 for the core, 1095 for the cutting edge and sides, and maybe some 15N20 as the layers between the core and the sides for some contrast in the etch. All of these steels HT process is almost exactly the same, so there is no compatibility issue with them.
I wouldn't get too caught up on starting from sands or powders. It's a cool and fun idea, but it's a big pain. Forge welding it's self can be challenging, so I'd start there instead of using powders.
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Post by kintaro on Mar 15, 2018 2:00:18 GMT
You can find tamahagane steel on this website: DictumI never bought this though, so I don't know what it's worth.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on Mar 15, 2018 2:24:16 GMT
You can find tamahagane steel on this website: Dictum€500/kg is pretty expensive steel!
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Post by kintaro on Mar 15, 2018 3:44:14 GMT
Yes I know it's crazy but if that exist it's most likely because there is a market for it.
I bet chinese industrialists can make it for ten time less expensive. They are just simply not aware of this market because nobody asked for it yet, or they already did this in large scale but we are not aware.
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Post by wulvz on Jun 4, 2019 15:10:59 GMT
It wont be close to the japanese alloy but i would recommend a blend of labratory grade iron with 1084 powder, a very large amount of manganese nails which have to be just plain iron and manganese and alot of dark beer bottles. The metal should be kept in a 45-50% ratio to natural charcoal.
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on Jun 4, 2019 15:31:08 GMT
You can get tamahagane from NBTHK tatara. Usagiya is selling 30kg batch for c.70,000 Yen shipped to you by sea mail or you can buy 5kg for 10,000 Yen + shipping. Just note as I've purchased multiple 20-30 kg packages of books from Japan, shipping for heavy packages costs a lot.
I am not well versed about things with modern swords/smiths but I do believe the better smiths get better tamahagane from NBTHK tatara that is lot more expensive than this lowest grade that Usagiya is providing.
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Post by wulvz on Jun 4, 2019 16:27:51 GMT
I wouldnt be able to say without forging it but from the pictures it looks like a collection of the undesirable slag content with the alloys one wouldnt want, that doesnt mean there isnt refinable material in there but there would be alot of oxides and a high failure rate because a tiny pocket of ti will ruin a blade. You could still work that into a patty and do a low temp quench to break it apart,
In an analogy it would be like buying dirt from a gold rush, its all low chance.
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Post by Silent on Jun 4, 2019 16:54:23 GMT
Jesus insane prices.
Thanks but no thanks. xD, get some 1060/1080 steel and use it.
Cya
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