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Post by bebut on Jan 26, 2018 1:37:49 GMT
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 26, 2018 2:46:08 GMT
It is a medical fact, leave an impaled in place until the subject is in a proper medical facility. It plugs the hole reducing the haemorrhaging. I have no idea the number of times I’ve seen in the movies that the victim is run through with whatever and someone comes to his aid, pulls whatever out, and the victim is immediately better. BS. That is a good way to finish a job someone else started.
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Post by antoine99 on Jan 26, 2018 5:26:46 GMT
It is a medical fact, leave an impaled in place until the subject is in a proper medical facility. It plugs the hole reducing the haemorrhaging. I have no idea the number of times I’ve seen in the movies that the victim is run through with whatever and someone comes to his aid, pulls whatever out, and the victim is immediately better. BS. That is a good way to finish a job someone else started. Well, in Steve Irwin's case as mentioned above, didn't the barb pierce his heart, so he was dead almost immediately anyway, regardless? Maybe he just died very slightly faster? Otherwise I agree that if someone with a sword in his gut tried to chase me he'd just make it many times worse with all the movement.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 26, 2018 13:08:55 GMT
It is a medical fact, leave an impaled in place until the subject is in a proper medical facility. It plugs the hole reducing the haemorrhaging. I have no idea the number of times I’ve seen in the movies that the victim is run through with whatever and someone comes to his aid, pulls whatever out, and the victim is immediately better. BS. That is a good way to finish a job someone else started. Well, in Steve Irwin's case as mentioned above, didn't the barb pierce his heart, so he was dead almost immediately anyway, regardless? Maybe he just died very slightly faster? Otherwise I agree that if someone with a sword in his gut tried to chase me he'd just make it many times worse with all the movement. I don’t know anything about Steve Irwin. My post was for general information in case someone out there came on someone with something sticking out of them tried to make the person more comfortable by removing the object while waiting for an ambulance or before transporting themselves. DON’T DO THAT.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 15:52:09 GMT
Poor Steve's number was probably up but again to be pedantic, it is not a good idea to pull the impaled object out. It is totally understandable for someone to do it because its hard to think calmly and cooly when you get stabbed. Being stabbed in the heart is hazardous to a person's well being.
Other people have survived similar injuries.
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Post by Cosmoline on Jan 26, 2018 18:48:01 GMT
It's my understanding the stingray had repeatedly hit him and swam off. They have barbs to increase damage. Their goal is not to remain stuck in what's attacking them. So they strike hard and then yank back out, leaving a gaping wound full of potent toxins. You can cruise around youtube for examples of stingray hits. Mostly minor thankfully, but VERY painful. One of the more unintentionally funny is where some dudes go out to film a wounded HUGE great white and one gets nailed in the foot after stepping on a stingray.
Likewise, with sword thrusts the goal is not to leave the sword in place. Rapiers for example punch through and yank back at very high speed when the attack is done properly.
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Post by bebut on Jan 26, 2018 20:33:12 GMT
Much depends on the blade shape. A thin blade (rapier) makes a small hole,so stabbing more than once is definitely the ticket. A thick straight blade (longsword) makes a bigger hole with more probability of hitting something critical. A curved blade (scimitar) lends itself to slashing wounds. Their weight and length can deliver cuts along the lines of the whole torso and probably an inch or 2 deep. While not an instant stop like severing the head/spinal column, there will be devastating blood loss and shock. And a slashing stroke does not come to a stop like a chopping stroke, the blade is still in motion for a repeat hit.
Each blade type has its merits and most can be used for stabbing or slashing. In a melee whatever works wins!
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Post by elbrittania39 on Jan 28, 2018 7:58:49 GMT
If you watch some hema clips on youtube, one thing you'll learn quickly is that "doubling" or both parties landing strikes just a moment apart, is very common. Its not terribly hard to strike your opponent, but it is hard to strike your opponent in such a way that is safe for you. So you're absolutely right to assume lots of sword fights would be bad for both parties. This does vary a bit depending on weapon systems how ever. For example, I've found weapons that use lunge and recover mechanics tend to avoid doubling more than other systems.
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Post by MOK on Jan 28, 2018 15:15:19 GMT
If you watch some hema clips on youtube, one thing you'll learn quickly is that "doubling" or both parties landing strikes just a moment apart, is very common. Its not terribly hard to strike your opponent, but it is hard to strike your opponent in such a way that is safe for you. So you're absolutely right to assume lots of sword fights would be bad for both parties. This does vary a bit depending on weapon systems how ever. For example, I've found weapons that use lunge and recover mechanics tend to avoid doubling more than other systems. Double kills are also a common and long lamented result of the sporting mindset, simply because when you're just playing tag for points or for fun, getting hit doesn't seem like such a big deal - you naturally care more about scoring than about not letting the opponent score, while in a real fight the priorities should be exactly the opposite. Which is, of course, why a lot of HEMA tournaments have been moving to scoring systems that penalize double kills and afterblows more strongly than they reward hits. It genuinely seems to result in much less of this nonsense. (Now, a lot of the bouts you see are still of a decidedly sporty nature, everybody moving around all twitchy and bouncy and using nothing but quick little tippy tappy sniping shots from long range, but it really is getting better...) Also why most good instructors spend a lot of time trying to instill the right mindset instead of just drilling technique, and why some let advanced students engage in freeplay with sharps - and this isn't anything new, either, as several historical treatises also stress the importance of sparring with live weapons for this exact reason.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 28, 2018 18:55:05 GMT
Referencing “Swordsmen of the British Empire” double kills were not uncommon. What is strange, and I’d say stranger than fiction, were the double kills in some of the colonies. I cannot remember which now but I believe in Africa, mainly. A native would receive a wound, grab the blade while still impaled, and at times advance while still impaled holding onto the blade closing to allow him to deliver his strike. Double kill.
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Post by MOK on Jan 28, 2018 19:11:10 GMT
Referencing “Swordsmen of the British Empire” double kills were not uncommon. What is strange, and I’d say stranger than fiction, were the double kills in some of the colonies. I cannot remember which now but I believe in Africa, mainly. A native would receive a wound, grab the blade while still impaled, and at times advance while still impaled holding onto the blade closing to allow him to deliver his strike. Double kill. It happens, yeah. I would call this sort of thing essentially a failure to cover yourself during attack; you can prevent this (if skill and luck allow) by keeping a cool head and initiating your attacks by controlling the opponent's weapons, rather than just rushing blindly in for the kill. Which is easier said than done, of course, what with all the stresses and pressures involved in a real life-and-death struggle... As has been said before, killing is the easy part, it's the not getting killed yourself in the process that actually takes practice.
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Post by howler on Jan 29, 2018 3:35:09 GMT
Referencing “Swordsmen of the British Empire” double kills were not uncommon. What is strange, and I’d say stranger than fiction, were the double kills in some of the colonies. I cannot remember which now but I believe in Africa, mainly. A native would receive a wound, grab the blade while still impaled, and at times advance while still impaled holding onto the blade closing to allow him to deliver his strike. Double kill. If ya know your a goner, who wouldn't attempt a "dirt nap stalemate" by getting the dude who did you in? Of course, who really thinks their gonna cash in their chips (often at a youngish age).
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 29, 2018 6:00:09 GMT
I would say double kill is quite difficult to prevent as long as your opponent is dead set with a suicide bomber mindset. That's why berserkers were feared. When the opponent simply gave up one's life to make a killing blow on you, no matter what, it would be very difficult to control his weapon since such control often requires the opponent to feel threatened. In this case, the opponent simply don't register any threat and danger and will strike and feint even in the face of getting hit by a lethal strike. Then it'll be damn difficult to catch up with the opponent's weapon.
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Post by leviathansteak on Jan 29, 2018 7:49:23 GMT
I would say double kill is quite difficult to prevent as long as your opponent is dead set with a suicide bomber mindset. That's why berserkers were feared. When the opponent simply gave up one's life to make a killing blow on you, no matter what, it would be very difficult to control his weapon since such control often requires the opponent to feel threatened. In this case, the opponent simply don't register any threat and danger and will strike and feint even in the face of getting hit by a lethal strike. Then it'll be damn difficult to catch up with the opponent's weapon. Absolutely agree. Its actually relatively easy to kill the other guy in a sword fight. Surviving is the tricky bit!
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Post by Lancelot Chan on Jan 29, 2018 9:28:33 GMT
I would say double kill is quite difficult to prevent as long as your opponent is dead set with a suicide bomber mindset. That's why berserkers were feared. When the opponent simply gave up one's life to make a killing blow on you, no matter what, it would be very difficult to control his weapon since such control often requires the opponent to feel threatened. In this case, the opponent simply don't register any threat and danger and will strike and feint even in the face of getting hit by a lethal strike. Then it'll be damn difficult to catch up with the opponent's weapon. Absolutely agree. Its actually relatively easy to kill the other guy in a sword fight. Surviving is the tricky bit! If both parties are trying to survive, I don't know about you, but to me it sounds like the situation can actually be resolved peacefully since both are having sense of self-preservation. :) Perhaps the codes of honor forced them to fight, or other circumstances, like robbing somebody just for the fund but the victim put up a fight. I dunno. I'm trying to say without one side becoming totally ruthless and self-hazardous, a fight do not have to happen. Yeah, despite I spent so many years practicing swordsmanship, I prefer things to be dealt with in peaceful ways LOL. The same issue apply to another can of worm, the edge parry or not. Even if you preserve your edge by doing all parry with the side, you can't restrict your opponent from parrying your strike at the last moment with the opponent's sword's edge. So edge to edge contact will surely happen. :P
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 29, 2018 12:39:34 GMT
Give me a winged spear such as CS Boar Spear.
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Post by howler on Jan 30, 2018 1:26:45 GMT
Give me a winged spear such as CS Boar Spear. If it works on a thick hided, feral hog, it'll work on a human.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 30, 2018 4:16:15 GMT
Double kills in boarhunting weren't uncommon too.
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Post by howler on Jan 30, 2018 5:48:01 GMT
Double kills in boarhunting weren't uncommon too. Hog tusks are like daggers, and when your angry, gored, and pushing near half a ton of thick hided body weight...
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christain
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Post by christain on Feb 9, 2018 14:07:05 GMT
As per the title of this thread: With a war hammer to the noggin. You ain't getting up easily from that. Sorry for the prolonged answer, but I felt this needed some closure.
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