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Post by howler on Jan 24, 2018 3:09:56 GMT
Spend the money to roll up and soak a few tameshigiri mats, bundle 2 or three in a big roll, and run that through. See what happens when you try to get your sword out. The tatami roll doesn't recoil with anxiety from your attack, double over in pain, or clutch your weapon. It doesn't have a skeletal structure either. It's a big simplification, but can give you an idea of some of the complications you can run into. Withdrawing from the engagement is one option, another is to dominate the opponent and maintain the pressure. Once the weapon is inserted, use it as a lever to put the target on the ground. There's a difference between a sloppy attack knocking the stand over and a controlled deliberate takedown. From there, stomp or bash / atemi or if you've got a dagger put it to work. Don't assume it's over, be ready to respond. Respond can mean maintaining the pressure, counterattacking, withdrawing, etc. Yeah, and have an idea of employing your particular size, fitness, and predisposition to the engagement, as a very large man can more easily bull rush and take the smaller, impaled adversary to the ground while a smaller person may want to quickly withdraw from a poked larger man and maintain distance while letting the wound take effect.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 4:31:30 GMT
Why is the small man impaled while the large man is only poked?
Just gave me the visual of a big oaf with a sword sticking halfway through his chest blinking at a guy using it as a chin-up bar.
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Post by leviathansteak on Jan 24, 2018 5:07:35 GMT
Why is the small man impaled while the large man is only poked? Just gave me the visual of a big oaf with a sword sticking halfway through his chest blinking at a guy using it as a chin-up bar. Hmm this leads to an interesting thought. If i were to stab a sword 3 inches into a big fat dude. I might only penetrate into fat and muscle Do the same for a skinny guy and you may well hit a vital organ..
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 24, 2018 8:04:52 GMT
There is a theory that gladiators had some belly fat for this reason.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2018 13:05:58 GMT
There's also a theory that gladiatorial fights to the death were not as routine as previously assumed.
I think there's a flaw in the "be so fat that they can't get through all the fat to stab something important" approach.
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Jan 24, 2018 13:15:33 GMT
Afaik they usually had one dead gladiator in five fights = one of ten fighters. Real gladiators I mean, not execution games etc. Of course too fat to stab has negative side effects. But a little bit of fat between skin and muscles helped surviving the injuries, I guess it protects bigger blood vessels or helps surviving the first days.
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Post by howler on Jan 24, 2018 21:02:37 GMT
Why is the small man impaled while the large man is only poked? Just gave me the visual of a big oaf with a sword sticking halfway through his chest blinking at a guy using it as a chin-up bar. I was just using different terms for being stabbed, but it does raise the issue of needing more penetration to get to the vitals of portly folks. Nice visual, btw.
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Post by antoine99 on Jan 24, 2018 23:14:35 GMT
Afaik they usually had one dead gladiator in five fights = one of ten fighters. Real gladiators I mean, not execution games etc. Of course too fat to stab has negative side effects. But a little bit of fat between skin and muscles helped surviving the injuries, I guess it protects bigger blood vessels or helps surviving the first days. I wonder if a gladiator has a slightly larger belly to protect his organs, if he would be cut whereas a skinny person would have been missed completely?
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Post by leviathansteak on Jan 24, 2018 23:58:43 GMT
Afaik they usually had one dead gladiator in five fights = one of ten fighters. Real gladiators I mean, not execution games etc. Of course too fat to stab has negative side effects. But a little bit of fat between skin and muscles helped surviving the injuries, I guess it protects bigger blood vessels or helps surviving the first days. I wonder if a gladiator has a slightly larger belly to protect his organs, if he would be cut whereas a skinny person would have been missed completely? Ha technically that would be a possible scenario. However i would guess that same cut inflicted on the fat guy would be relatively shallow
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Post by antoine99 on Jan 25, 2018 0:49:29 GMT
I wonder if a gladiator has a slightly larger belly to protect his organs, if he would be cut whereas a skinny person would have been missed completely? Ha technically that would be a possible scenario. However i would guess that same cut inflicted on the fat guy would be relatively shallow Yeah definitely
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Post by Cosmoline on Jan 25, 2018 1:12:57 GMT
But, speaking as a fat guy, the cut that gives me lipo the hard way would not have HIT the skinny guy. The fat padding is, however, helpful in dealing with blunt force.
I imagine Roman gladiators were basically pro wrestlers. Physically huge, over-the-top personalities in nonsensical matchups getting the crowds worked up. I mean they'd almost have to be. A REAL melee fight with swords or other sharp objects is going to be over way too quickly without some showmanship. And maybe they faked some deaths too. Humans, fundamentally, have never changed. Crowds still need to see some crazy stuff to stay in the seats.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on Jan 25, 2018 2:01:36 GMT
Crowds still need to see some crazy stuff to stay in the seats. I’ve watched Collegiate and scholastic wrestling, even had a go at it once. It never attracted much of a crowd. In fact I thought it boring to watch. Many people attend and pay to watch professional wrestling, which is basically a show of which I am not a fan.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jan 25, 2018 2:31:37 GMT
If you look at gladiator armor, I think it was designed to prolong the fight, while still letting the audience see blood. Barring the retiarius, most gladiators wore helmets that provided extremely good protection, armor that protected their sword arm, and armor for one or both legs (and of course, a shield). So the likelihood of someone going down quickly from a hit to the head, or being unable to fight due to leg or arm injuries, was minimized. Meanwhile the torso remained unprotected.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 25, 2018 3:13:38 GMT
Ending the fight quickly, you've got basically three options - flee, remove their psychological willingness to attack, and remove their physiological ability to attack.
You saw screw it, and run. Fight's over.
You make him unwilling to want to attack. Plenty of stories of people who saw they had no shot due to whatever factor - intimidating stature, absolute lack of openings, etc. We've all probably been there and known or noticed someone we just did not want to screw with. Maybe we've even been that person.
Removing ability to fight, some things are just absolutely reliable to fall back on. If you damage the spinal column, it's game over. He might fight through a gutshot, or a nasty gash in the arm or chest, but you cannot will limbs to work when the spinal cord can't send or receive signals. He cannot stand on a leg that is structurally compromised.
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Post by antoine99 on Jan 25, 2018 20:49:10 GMT
Ending the fight quickly, you've got basically three options - flee, remove their psychological willingness to attack, and remove their physiological ability to attack. You saw screw it, and run. Fight's over. You make him unwilling to want to attack. Plenty of stories of people who saw they had no shot due to whatever factor - intimidating stature, absolute lack of openings, etc. We've all probably been there and known or noticed someone we just did not want to screw with. Maybe we've even been that person. Removing ability to fight, some things are just absolutely reliable to fall back on. If you damage the spinal column, it's game over. He might fight through a gutshot, or a nasty gash in the arm or chest, but you cannot will limbs to work when the spinal cord can't send or receive signals. He cannot stand on a leg that is structurally compromised. Yeah, honestly, I think if I struck a gutshot and I had a backup weapon, being inexperienced, I'd leave my sword in the person and run like Hell if it was 1 on 1 combat. I think if he chased me, the bleeding would become more severe, so basically I can just wait it out.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jan 25, 2018 22:05:38 GMT
That's probably a pretty good idea. I'd imagine it's be difficult to run down and catch someone if you had a sword sticking out of your gut....
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Post by antoine99 on Jan 25, 2018 23:22:50 GMT
That's probably a pretty good idea. I'd imagine it's be difficult to run down and catch someone if you had a sword sticking out of your gut.... Definitely! Wouldn't that also greatly increase the amount of blood loss though, since the heart rate will increase and more blood will be pumping, and by extension, being lost? I would think so.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 0:04:11 GMT
You don't even have to actually hit him, throw the sword or whatever at him and book it outta there. Don't even wait to see if you hit, just GTFO. Personally I wouldn't really want to lose one of my weapons, but avoidance is pretty much always preferable unless there's some crazy situation you just can't escape from, or you're the last line between bad guy and special people. If you don't have to, then don't. It is a bad place to be.
If he stops to pull the weapon out he may damage himself further. If he starts running after you without removing it, the movement will be like twisting the blade and he'll likely damage himself further that way also.
Just from normal unstabbed running, once I get that cramp in the gut, my performance goes to absolute garbage.
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Post by legacyofthesword on Jan 26, 2018 0:04:27 GMT
That's probably a pretty good idea. I'd imagine it's be difficult to run down and catch someone if you had a sword sticking out of your gut.... Definitely! Wouldn't that also greatly increase the amount of blood loss though, since the heart rate will increase and more blood will be pumping, and by extension, being lost? I would think so. Sounds reasonable. Pulling the sword out would probably increase the bloodloss too.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2018 0:07:23 GMT
Exactly, Steve Irwin didn't die from being stabbed, he died from pulling the thing that stabbed him out.
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