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Post by Adrian Jordan on Dec 21, 2017 20:36:50 GMT
Hello. I wanted to go over some issues that have popped back up. They do all the time, and sometimes people either forget proper forum conduct or are new and need some guidance on the issue. So here we go.
Please don't vendor bash. Don't get this confused with not criticizing or pointing out faults, but you can do both of those things in a respectful manner. If a vendor or manufacturer is messing up, absolutely shine a light on it. This goes for any manufacturer or vendor, period. They will never improve their services or products if this is not done. Just try to do so in a constructive manner.
Please give them a chance to make a situation right. Do not give any manufacturer or vendor a free pass on poor products or customer service, but also don't level criticism if you have not given them the chance to right a situation. If you receive bad products and never contact the vendor for satisfaction then it's absolutely your fault if you get the short end of the stick. If you do report it and they do not respond with adequate satisfaction then it's absolutely their fault.
If the service you receive is sub-par, do not hesitate to report it. When you report it, please be as impartial as possible. Report both sides of the situation so that members can form a whole picture and decide if they wish to do business with said vendor in the future. What may seem an egregious transgression to one person may seem like not that big a deal to another.
When a thread is put up about such an issue remember that what goes for one goes for all. Do not criticize or cast aspersions on the OP because you like said vendor and have never had an issue with them. Do look at the issue and if you feel it may be skewed or incomplete then respectfully ask the poster for additional details. Bear also in mind that the OP may be extremely agitated at the moment of posting the thread, and with time may realize that they were hasty. Respectful back and forth between members may sway one side or the other, or open a new possibility that the OP may not have tried, and that can be a good thing, but neither side should become aggressive or disrespectful if someone is not seeing things their way.
It's okay for members to play favorites. We all have them. But do not take it to a degree where a member is attacked for speaking for or against a company or product just because you have a differing opinion. Discuss and or debate, yes, but at this point the lines are clearly drawn between constructive discourse and a flame war.
Lastly, if a thread or post goes outside of the rules, either by its tone or content, please don't take part in the crappery. Report it to a moderator so that we can take appropriate action.
In the end, this is supposed to be a place where we can discuss all manner of issues concerning our hobby in a respectful, constructive manner. It's supposed to be fun and informative, and sometimes fun gets rowdy and that's okay. We just need to be careful that we don't turn this into a forum that is hostile or that no longer is a place where members can get good information.
Thanks
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Post by dchisenh on Dec 21, 2017 20:51:51 GMT
Good reminder Adrian and excellent use of the word "crappery"! đ
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Post by demonskull on Dec 21, 2017 21:06:09 GMT
Just a suggestion: If you do encounter an issue with a vendor, 1st as Adrian suggests contact the vendor to resolve the issue, wait an appropriate amount of time at least- 2 business days for a vendor in the same country and 4 for those in a foreign country.
Next wait another 24 hours before posting a negative thread.
One last thing, after you write the post, don't hit the create post button until you have reread what you wrote at least twice. Try removing all emotion from the post and stick with facts only.
Just remember all of us are here to support the collection of swords in general. Knowledge of which vendors are reputable and which have issues is good for the community but emotion is not the same as facts.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Dec 21, 2017 21:15:20 GMT
Just a suggestion: If you do encounter an issue with a vendor, 1st as Adrian suggests contact the vendor to resolve the issue, wait an appropriate amount of time at least- 2 business days for a vendor in the same country and 4 for those in a foreign country. Next wait another 24 hours before posting a negative thread. One last thing, after you write the post, don't hit the create post button until you have reread what you wrote at least twice. Try removing all emotion from the post and stick with facts only. Just remember all of us are here to support the collection of swords in general. Knowledge of which vendors are reputable and which have issues is good for the community but emotion is not the same as facts. Super good stuff, demonskull.
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christain
Member
It's the steel on the inside that counts.
Posts: 2,835
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Post by christain on Dec 21, 2017 21:38:03 GMT
Well said, all of you. I wish this was the case on ALL arms and armor websites. And I also support the word 'crappery'.
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Post by zabazagobo on Dec 21, 2017 22:15:19 GMT
Amen. Criticism is fine if it's constructive. When it's destructive, a la vendor bashing, (whether it's a vendor from Canada or China) it is just not right. Threads like "Huawei Sucks" and "Beware DSA" are just inspiring the worst sort of discourse on this forum and make me need a breather.
Thanks for posting this. (and Merry Christmas!)
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Dec 21, 2017 22:34:57 GMT
yeah it does not help anything
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Post by vermithrax on Dec 22, 2017 1:00:22 GMT
This is a very well run and behaved forum, but good reminder.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 14:32:08 GMT
Could a more productive environment between members and vendors be facilitated, if something like the following policy was in place?
Positive or neutral or constructive criticism postings are allowed in the appropriate forum section. Potentially inflammatory comments or complaints to vendors or other members, and related responses, are allowed only by private message.
....also, when an obviously inflammatory titled thread pops up or a thread starts to go down in flames, why not remove it instead of locking it? Out of site, out of mind.
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Post by Verity on Dec 22, 2017 16:46:07 GMT
Could a more productive environment between members and vendors be facilitated, if something like the following policy was in place? Positive or neutral or constructive criticism postings are allowed in the appropriate forum section.  Potentially inflammatory comments or complaints to vendors or other members, and related responses, are allowed only by private message. ....also, when an obviously inflammatory titled thread pops up or a thread starts to go down in flames, why not remove it instead of locking it?  Out of site, out of mind. only danger in something like this is it may up harassment by PM. I think we all should just keep it respectful. Period. I have engaged in some of these discussions but have always kept my comments dispassionate and respectful. Why is it hard for folks to do that? đ¤
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 19:47:00 GMT
I was trying to determine a way to bring lost vendors back. Interacting with sword makers in a positive and constructive manner would benefit us as consumers and be a lot of fun.
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Post by Verity on Dec 22, 2017 19:57:02 GMT
I was trying to determine a way to bring lost vendors back. Â Interacting with sword makers in a positive and constructive manner would benefit us as consumers and be a lot of fun. prob wonât happen. The âbig onesâ didnât post often anyway.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 20:08:05 GMT
Really? If I was a sword maker/vendor, I would be all over this site. I would have polls, surveys and contests and promotions, to find out what the members wanted.
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LH
Member
Posts: 203
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Post by LH on Dec 22, 2017 20:44:09 GMT
Amen. Criticism is fine if it's constructive. When it's destructive, a la vendor bashing, (whether it's a vendor from Canada or China) it is just not right. Threads like " Huawei Sucks" and "Beware DSA" are just inspiring the worst sort of discourse on this forum and make me need a breather. Thanks for posting this. (and Merry Christmas!) I actually agree even though I started that Huawei thread. I guess I was just so disappointed. And I wanted for people that are searching about Huawei to read about the problems too. I don't think I made any unnecessary bashing just told what had happened and that I wouldn't recommend them. Never said their swords are crap or anything like that. Only customer service which is crap. Now that I have unnecessarily and probably unsuccessfully tried to defend myself I do agree that my thread name is a bit too provocative. It could have been "Huawei problems". I don't think I can change that? Maybe some mod could do it?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Dec 22, 2017 20:57:37 GMT
LH - I should have warned you in your Huawei thread.
You can go to your thread starting post and click "edit" in upper right and you can change the title and or content. I have done so many times.
If Huawei had a representative on the site, you could have private messaged them and worked it out without slamming each other publicly, thereby increasing the chances of a positive result. Because the vendor would have incentive to respond promptly, you would have had a better result.
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Post by zabazagobo on Dec 22, 2017 21:56:12 GMT
Amen. Criticism is fine if it's constructive. When it's destructive, a la vendor bashing, (whether it's a vendor from Canada or China) it is just not right. Threads like " Huawei Sucks" and "Beware DSA" are just inspiring the worst sort of discourse on this forum and make me need a breather. Thanks for posting this. (and Merry Christmas!) I actually agree even though I started that Huawei thread. I guess I was just so disappointed. And I wanted for people that are searching about Huawei to read about the problems too. I don't think I made any unnecessary bashing just told what had happened and that I wouldn't recommend them. Never said their swords are crap or anything like that. Only customer service which is crap. Now that I have unnecessarily and probably unsuccessfully tried to defend myself I do agree that my thread name is a bit too provocative. It could have been "Huawei problems". I don't think I can change that? Maybe some mod could do it? You conducted yourself like a proper gentleman who was understandably dissatisfied with a truly abysmally botched custom project. My comments weren''t directed at you at all, but at others on that thread who took things in an overly antagonistic direction. And honestly, if I had the experience you had I'd probably make a thread with 'sucks' in the title too. Providing valid criticism like you did is respectable and gives individuals good information to know whether or not a vendor suits their needs or interests. Apologies if you thought my comment was in any way shape or form directed at you specifically.
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LeMal
Member
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Post by LeMal on Dec 23, 2017 3:01:04 GMT
How about this simple rule of thumb. Stop making universal statements.
Be specific about the problem you had. Even if there is a noticeable tendency for problems in a vendor, state the plural with specifics.
Virtually no vendor universally "sucks." Even a blind squirrel finds a nut, and there isn't a single vendor no matter how poor their reputation or how leery I am of them who hasn't produced a few things I've rolled the dice on, and one or a few of them have been gems. A few more if you count a little customization, tinkering or judicious rehilting.
And there isn't a vendor, no matter how "august," that I haven't been disappointed in a time or two.
Judgment is fine. Judgment that makes sweeping, set-in-stone generalizations is not.
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Post by Svadilfari on Dec 23, 2017 4:05:41 GMT
Just a gentle hint for contacting vendors..especially those in other countries. Just remember..many vendors are NOT native English speakers - so avoid jargon or slang in your correspondence with them. Try to stick to formal English - whoever is at the receiving end of the conversation is likely to understand that a lot better. Also..be tolerant of their replies...
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Post by RaylonTheDemented on Dec 25, 2017 19:43:19 GMT
Just a gentle hint for contacting vendors..especially those in other countries. Just remember..many vendors are NOT native English speakers - so avoid jargon or slang in your correspondence with them. Try to stick to formal English - whoever is at the receiving end of the conversation is likely to understand that a lot better. Also..be tolerant of their replies... Elaborating on this, likely stating the obvious, but it is way too easy to fall in that trap: Our correspondents are not idiots. Finding 'funny' and 'simplistic' the way some correspondence is formulated and/or written, grammar, repetition and such, yeah, sure, many use translators, but being very polite and respectful goes a way for customer service. o7
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