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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 30, 2017 22:53:09 GMT
The scope seems country wide in China. All small time sellers based there that are supplied by China-based fitting makers are not able to replenish their fittings, regardless of sword style. The big companies that have fitting makers in house should be okay. Also, China-based customers, which I'm told constitutes a very large potion of the sales pool, are no longer able to have these swords shipped to them, as there is a ban on it that started a little while ago. The combination of the lack of fittings supplies and the in country shipping ban all spells really bad news for the smaller vendors such as those on eBay.
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Nov 30, 2017 22:58:09 GMT
Just out of curiosity (as someone with no background information on this): what is the scope of this crackdown, in layman's terms? Is this sword fittings only or does it include complete swords? Asian-style (katana etc), or everything including euros (ex. Hanwei tinkers and rapiers)? it is many fittings factories being shut down due to pollution which affects the smaller sellers on ebay and other places, shipping to europe being impossible, and overally many forges being shut down, so far it has not affected the larger manufacturers and does not target specific types of swords
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Nov 30, 2017 22:58:47 GMT
The scope seems country wide in China. All small time sellers based there that are supplied by China-based fitting makers are not able to replenish their fittings, regardless of sword style. The big companies that have fitting makers in house should be okay. Also, China-based customers, which I'm told constitutes a very large potion of the sales pool, are no longer able to have these swords shipped to them, as there is a ban on it that started a little while ago. The combination of the lack of fittings supplies and the in country shipping ban all spells really bad news for the smaller vendors such as those on eBay. someone told me the internal shipping ban of swords within china was only temporary and has been lifted, not 100% on this info tho
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 30, 2017 23:06:49 GMT
Thanks. I sure hope it was.
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Post by bfoo2 on Nov 30, 2017 23:23:35 GMT
In layman's terms, what will be affected vs. what won't?
For example, if I go to KoA and order, say a Hanwei Practical rapier. Or a Tinker Bastard. Will this be an issue now? How about several months from now when inventory that's already been imported starts running low?
What if I order a #9 Euro or Dojo pro katana from Ronin? Or from TFW or other manufacturers?
What about a custom katana off eBay? (although I glean that this segment of the market is deeply screwed)
I guess what I'm asking is: what sorts of availability issues will consumers be experiencing in a broader context? Should the average sword collector/backyard cutter be concerned?
Unfortunately, I'm not very familiar with the supply chain behind these things (as far as I'm concerned, the mailman delivers me a sword and that's the end of that) so discussing the consequences in terms of supply chain and production location doesn't help me very much.
Many Thanks for the information!
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Nov 30, 2017 23:38:02 GMT
bigger companies are ok, shipping might be more awkward and cost more to europe since you cant ship direct
smaller custom pieces are not ok as there are no fittings, factories closing down and also no shipping to europe, also they might try to take your money, wait out the 6 month paypal claims policy and just dip
if you live in the americas, it will be a bit better for now, still wouldnt recommend you try to buy a custom katana off ebay tho
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Post by Afoo on Dec 1, 2017 0:11:52 GMT
Would larger companies and wholesalers be okay in the long term though? Are the customs issues for individual consumer purchases, or would commercial exports be effected as well?
Also, how are larger factories like Hanwei or RK effected? Are they also being shut down for pollution/ the other issues above, or is this mainly an issue with the supply of fittings?
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Dec 1, 2017 0:25:24 GMT
Would larger companies and wholesalers be okay in the long term though? Are the customs issues for individual consumer purchases, or would commercial exports be effected as well? Also, how are larger factories like Hanwei or RK effected? Are they also being shut down for pollution/ the other issues above, or is this mainly an issue with the supply of fittings? currently the issues is with individual consumer purchases from smaller ebay like companies in china due to the lack of fittings after the closing of many factories large companies like hanwei and RK make their own fittings and have their own molds so they are good to go for now, they also have the resources to meet the new standards in pollution regulation blades are still being made in some chinese factories, the major issue is no fittings shipping to europe is also hard because all individual packages are being denied, i believe cargo shipments of large amounts of swords are ok atm but dont quote me on that. right now i believe RK has to ship to their texas warehouse in america, then ship to europe so shipping prices for europe might go up. all in all its the smaller custom sword companies from china that are in major danger as they dont have fittings, and they cant ship to a large majority of their buyer base but it might get worst for even the larger companies in the futures, all we can hope for is the rules take a step back, instead of a step forward
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Post by Afoo on Dec 1, 2017 0:40:23 GMT
Fair enough - thanks for the information.
Hopefully things get worked out for everyone involved
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Post by Elrikk on Dec 1, 2017 1:13:12 GMT
Now I get the influx of Deepeeka at KoA...
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stormmaster
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Post by stormmaster on Dec 1, 2017 1:21:20 GMT
Now I get the influx of Deepeeka at KoA... praise the sword gods for our lord and savior windlass sama, here to deliver us from the horrors of slos in the event all chinese sword companies go under in the dark times
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admin
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Post by admin on Dec 1, 2017 3:07:11 GMT
Would larger companies and wholesalers be okay in the long term though? Are the customs issues for individual consumer purchases, or would commercial exports be effected as well? Also, how are larger factories like Hanwei or RK effected? Are they also being shut down for pollution/ the other issues above, or is this mainly an issue with the supply of fittings? currently the issues is with individual consumer purchases from smaller ebay like companies in china due to the lack of fittings after the closing of many factories large companies like hanwei and RK make their own fittings and have their own molds so they are good to go for now, they also have the resources to meet the new standards in pollution regulation blades are still being made in some chinese factories, the major issue is no fittings shipping to europe is also hard because all individual packages are being denied, i believe cargo shipments of large amounts of swords are ok atm but dont quote me on that. right now i believe RK has to ship to their texas warehouse in america, then ship to europe so shipping prices for europe might go up. all in all its the smaller custom sword companies from china that are in major danger as they dont have fittings, and they cant ship to a large majority of their buyer base but it might get worst for even the larger companies in the futures, all we can hope for is the rules take a step back, instead of a step forward Stormaster pretty much hits the nail on the head. If you go to Kult of Athena and order a Hanwei sword, well - its business as usual. Companies that make their own fittings from iron (such as Sukashi tsuba) are still able to do so. But all the copper, brass and zinc alloy fittings that you see are no longer available. In the longer term, no doubt some smart entrepreneur in China will see the demand, work with officials and new pollution regulations, and start up a fresh new factory. But it will increase the prices significantly, and will also mean less options for a few years at least. There has been a lot of Price pressure on the industry for years - and many companies have not raised prices for a long time. But this is not sustainable. To re-interate - in the short term the issue effects swords being made in China using copper, brass, zinc - they are aren't making them anymore, and have been steadily shut down over the past few months and now they are ALL shut down. So people who order direct from sellers like St-Swords, Huawei, etc will have problems and some of these guys may well exit the market. The European shipping issue is just a part of a double whammy. That has been going on for a while too, but has recently come to a head. Chris explains it in detail on his Facebook page here:
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Post by zabazagobo on Dec 1, 2017 3:13:02 GMT
Now I get the influx of Deepeeka at KoA... praise the sword gods for our lord and savior windlass sama, here to deliver us from the horrors of slos in the event all chinese sword companies go under in the dark times Right, there's plenty of other vendors out there, especially Windlass, that would discourage Chinese manufacturers from raising their prices (and thankfully, since Hanwei's prices are already a bit high). Now if only MRL would ship out my rapier already...been a week now and crickets. I need to see the savior firsthand haha
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Post by Afoo on Dec 1, 2017 4:35:26 GMT
I might get some flak for this, but I think this is a positive development, at least in the long term. Its unfortunate that businesses will be put out of business, and that the price of swords may go up....but I would argue that its a worthwhile trade-off for the health and well being of countless citizens, communities and workers whose health and well being are at risk. I like cheap swords, but not at the expense of someone's life, or the life of their children.
I like to think I am pretty knowledgeable in chemistry, and have some idea how harmful the compounds released by unsafe mining and metal production can be. That said, you don't need a PhD to see some of the effects - even if we consider just lead, in 2001 it was stated that lead poisoning is the number 1 pediatric health problem. Even into the 2010's there have been dozens of cases of mass lead poisoning involving hundreds of children, many of whom suffer permanent neurological damage.
For us privileged enough to live in the West and who have the luxury of clean air and safe working conditions, its all too easy to forget the true cost of our cheap swords, among other products. We can be annoyed at this, lets be honest, minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of our lives here, but we should also appreciate that something is being done to help improve countless lives, not to mention protect the environment and everything else that lives within in.
The customs thing seems to be separate, and that I agree is kinda dumb, baring any explanation of justification which I am not aware of.
EDIT: I dun think this needs saying, but note that I have no affiliation with any entities or even any governments involved.
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Post by Verity on Dec 1, 2017 4:41:40 GMT
I might get some flak for this, but I think this is a positive development, at least in the long term. Its unfortunate that businesses will be put out of business, and that the price of swords may go up....but I would argue that its a worthwhile trade-off for the health and well being of countless citizens, communities and workers whose health and well being are at risk. I like cheap swords, but not at the expense of someone's life, or the life of their children. I like to think I am pretty knowledgeable in chemistry, and have some idea how harmful the compounds released by unsafe mining and metal production can be. That said, you don't need a PhD to see some of the effects - even if we consider just lead, in 2001 it was stated that lead poisoning is the number 1 pediatric health problem. Even into the 2010's there have been dozens of cases of mass lead poisoning involving hundreds of children, many of whom suffer permanent neurological damage. For us privileged enough to live in the West and who have the luxury of clean air and safe working conditions, its all too easy to forget the true cost of our cheap swords, among other products. We can be annoyed at this, lets be honest, minor inconvenience in the grand scheme of our lives here, but we should also appreciate that something is being done to help improve countless lives, not to mention protect the environment and everything else that lives within in. The customs thing seems to be separate, and that I agree is kinda dumb, baring any explanation of justification which I am not aware of. EDIT: I dun think this needs saying, but note that I have no affiliation with any entities or even any governments involved. ^ this. No flak from me, Afoo. I think we often forget that a good majority of the world’s population worries about clean water and air and not that new toy they bought for themselves and the extra couple hundred bucks it cost. While I feel for the now-unemployed workers I think the steps to stem the pollution are noble in China. And I, for one, am okay if that rebalances the sword market some, and means I have to shell out a bit more for a sword. Most of what I buy doesn’t fall into this realm anyway but I do have a few that did back when I bought them.
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Post by Afoo on Dec 1, 2017 4:54:46 GMT
Thanks ^^
On the note about the unemployed workers - part of me is glad on that front as well. It is unfortunate for those who are out of work, but on the flip side it is nice that the businesses and managers who do follow the rules are finally being recognized.
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Post by treeslicer on Dec 1, 2017 5:37:07 GMT
I for one won't miss any of the more slippery resellers. I have always suspected that there was a massive "get rich quick in mail-order sales" scam bubble being promoted in China that was just waiting to burst. It's involving a great deal more than merely swords, as well. I would not be surprised if large parts of eBay turn into a ghost town for a while.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 1, 2017 6:12:15 GMT
Well, both Jacky from Huawei (Han Jian) and a guy from Goodluckworld (interesting cheapo) tell me i will get my swords; they "sound surprised" on the info... will keep an eye on that - SUCH an eye...
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Post by Robert in California on Dec 1, 2017 7:58:39 GMT
Just talked (email) to Van Yang of Jkoo/Sinosword. He said that so far, they are ok. RinC
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admin
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Post by admin on Dec 1, 2017 8:40:34 GMT
Well, both Jacky from Huawei (Han Jian) and a guy from Goodluckworld (interesting cheapo) tell me i will get my swords; they "sound surprised" on the info... will keep an eye on that - SUCH an eye... It is for the best - the fact that they 'sound surprised' rings a bit of an alarm bell. There is no way that they don't know about this, the shut downs of the component makers have been going for a few months now and everyone bought up all the stock they could, so there is no more surplus. The real danger is that the eBay sellers may pull out at any time - drain their PayPal accounts and disappear. In response, with less listing of swords on eBay, PayPal and eBay may decide that swords are not worth the trouble anymore and disallow listings for them (already some types of swords and knives are prohibited by PayPal - sword canes in particular are a big no no and have been for years). If this happens - yeah, lets just hope it doesn't come to that.. The situation is changing all the time, it appears that the European lock down may be shifting, but the production of components is static. And with Chinese New Year coming in February - there is a general slow down in production there as well, and people need money more than ever at this time.. So in short, it just pays to be more careful than ever when dealing direct and to keep a close eye on things.. As stated, I will continue to try and update you with any major developments.
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