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Post by vecna on Nov 8, 2017 11:04:52 GMT
Since the members here are extreamly knowledgeable in such matters. List your top 5 swordsmen past or present. Please provide links, and reasons why
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Post by Cosmoline on Nov 8, 2017 18:09:20 GMT
Many have been lost to time, but of those we know about: --Miyamoto Musashi. Because he's flipping Musashi. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi--Johannes Liechtenauer. We know less of his bio than Musashi, but his influence on late medieval and Renaissance swordplay was enormous and his verse was the bedrock of German fencing for two hundred years. wiktenauer.com/wiki/Johannes_Liechtenauer--Donald McBane. There really needs to be a film about this guy! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_McBane--Fiore Furlano de’i Liberi de Cividale d’Austria. If we believe his bio, he was one tough SOB and an excellent swordsman. wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%27i_Liberi--The anonymous author of the Wallerstein Codex. We don't know who wrote it, but its crude drawings are a gold mine of cunning sword moves. And there are even instructions on how to get people to pay debts without actually killing them.
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Post by Jordan Williams on Nov 8, 2017 18:12:36 GMT
Hodson of Hodson's Horse!
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Post by Faldarin on Nov 8, 2017 19:19:16 GMT
Many have been lost to time, but of those we know about: --Miyamoto Musashi. Because he's flipping Musashi. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miyamoto_Musashi--Johannes Liechtenauer. We know less of his bio than Musashi, but his influence on late medieval and Renaissance swordplay was enormous and his verse was the bedrock of German fencing for two hundred years. wiktenauer.com/wiki/Johannes_Liechtenauer--Donald McBane. There really needs to be a film about this guy! en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_McBane--Fiore Furlano de’i Liberi de Cividale d’Austria. If we believe his bio, he was one tough SOB and an excellent swordsman. wiktenauer.com/wiki/Fiore_de%27i_Liberi--The anonymous author of the Wallerstein Codex. We don't know who wrote it, but its crude drawings are a gold mine of cunning sword moves. And there are even instructions on how to get people to pay debts without actually killing them. Completely agree with the first four. The fifth one - I have no personal insight into, it gives me something to look up. Thanks!
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Post by Cosmoline on Nov 8, 2017 19:29:04 GMT
Whoever wrote it strikes me as someone akin to Bron from GOT. A mercenary who would do everything from fighting in wars to collecting bounties or being a strong arm debt enforcer. His fighting moves tend to be clever and simple and aren't really part of the Liechtenauer system. Unfortunately we only have this small window into his methods. FYI here's how to get money from a reluctant debtor, 15th century mafia style (you pinch the neck skin and cut, and the victim will think you're truly about to slice his neck open) wiktenauer.com/wiki/Codex_Wallerstein_(Cod.I.6.4º.2)#/media/File:Cod.I.6.4%C2%BA.2_074v.jpg
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stormmaster
Member
I like viking/migration era swords
Posts: 7,647
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Post by stormmaster on Nov 8, 2017 19:34:50 GMT
I must admit this question have gave me pause and then I went to thinking, by far the greatest swords man of all time has to be yours truly, I've once chopped through a block of cement with a dsa sword, the very fact i did not die makes me the greatest o believe, lik if u agrei
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Post by masterofossus on Nov 8, 2017 19:37:22 GMT
Since the members here are extreamly knowledgeable in such matters. List your top 5 swordsmen past or present. Please provide links, and reasons why William Marshall - Defeated 500 knights in tournaments over his life. George Silver - Silver had a standing challenge to the various London- and International sword and defence instructors and schools (particularly Saviolo) in a range of weapons. They didn't take him up on it. Minamoto no Yopoopsune - Unlike the others on this list, Yopoopsune is here because of a single battle in which he defeated Benkei - a man who had previously defeated 999 men who had tried to cross a bridge he was guarding. His skill at arms won Benkei's allegiance, and Benkei would go on to kill hundreds of Yopoopsune's enemies in a series of battles in the Genpei Wars. You can just as easily give this to Benkei. Miyamoto Musashi - Undefeated in 60 recorded duels and (probably) 6 significant battles. Khalid ibn al-Walid - Khalid fought in every major battle of the Islamic expansion, and was instrumental in the Islamic conquests of Persia and the Levant. This included numerous personal duels, and several narrow escapes (notably at the semi-legendary Battle of Mutah in which he personally broke eight or nine swords in combat). Honorable Mentions: El Cid - I'm marking him down because he possibly never even existed and almost certainly didn't do half the things attributed to him. Bonus Pick: Shamgar, son of Anath - Commemorated in Judges 3:31 as having slain 600 Philistines with an ox goad. He, too, saved Israel.
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Post by Faldarin on Nov 8, 2017 20:31:31 GMT
I have a feeling I'm going to enjoy this thread. I greatly enjoy history, but this isn't something I've looked into exactly. It doesn't hurt to learn other things either - like Mr. Silver's challenge, that's intriguing.
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Post by zabazagobo on Nov 8, 2017 21:11:10 GMT
Honorable Mention: "Mad Jack" Churchill
Fought in WW2 using a broadsword and a bow and arrow. He took on automatic weapons with a bow, got personal with a sword and played the bagpipes all the while. He may not stack up to Liechtenauer or Fiore with his swordplay or legacy, but the fact that he used classic weaponry against modern weapons is mind-blowing. Guess chivalry isn't dead after all.
5. Itō Ittōsai
A contemporary of Musashi who went undefeated in duels as well. Haven't stumbled on too much about his personal narrative, but I do love the dynamics of his style, Itō-ryu, and how, like Musashi argues, defense and offense are one and any movement is an opportunity to strike down the opponent.
Don't know of many sources about Ittōsai, other than really enjoying various demonstrations of Itō-ryu online.
4. Minamoto Yoshi_tsune (so spelled to avoid language filter)
Yoshi_tsune was not only an excellent swordsman, but also an extremely competent general (I argue he's more notable for his military genius than his excellent swordplay). Perhaps too competent, as his paranoid brother persecuted him until he was executed, despite Yoshi_tsune's strong allegiance to him. Sad ending, I really like the 'what if' histories where he survived in the Tohoku with his wife and children, living off in the mountains. His exploits were the highlight of Tale of the Heike for me.
Tale of the Heike's romanticized but a classic, tells the story of the Taira and the Minamoto quite well.
3. William Marshall
Arguably the most bad@$$ knight of all time. For a goofy comparison, Marshall was pretty much the English knight equivalent of Wolverine ("I'm the best there is at what I do, and what I do isn't very nice"). Marshall's one of those warriors whose life story you have to read for yourself. Words don't do him justice.
Thomas Asbridge's book on William Marshall is a great read.
2. Kamiizumi Nobutsuna
A martial arts adept who more or less paved the way for the shinkage ryu, and its subsequent variations such as the Yagyu shinkage ryu in particular. A really remarkable swordsman who understood the finer points of swordplay better than most. Really wonder if Musashi could have beaten him...
Haven't stumbled on much about him other than mentions here and there in various books about his influence (e.g. Friday's book on Kashima Shin-Ryū). Texts on Yagyu Shinkage-Ryu such as Yagyu Munenori's "Life Giving Sword" (as translated by William S. Wilson) are derived from his insights and tactics. You could argue that Munenori's work is a beautiful fusion of Takuan Sōhō's zen and Nobutsuna's swordplay in a concise and compelling read.
1. Miyamoto Musashi
My 'spirit guide' and a legend for all the reasons everyone talks about. Most of all I appreciate Musashi on a psychological level, he was very clever and insightful in human psychology and more than many swordsmen seemed to know how to manipulate the mind. His conception of a fluid form that is in a state of void resonates with me on a foundational level. A genius to be sure.
Kenji Tokitsu's book on Musashi is excellent and a must-read. Tokitsu's notes and translation of Musashi's texts are incredibly valuable, and only William S. Wilson's translation is in the same league i.m.o.
*Also have to mention it's criminal to not mention Fiore and Liechtenauer, I just haven't studied their brilliance enough to rank them appropriately.
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Post by Adrian Jordan on Nov 8, 2017 21:29:05 GMT
There is a three part series of books called Famous Japanese Swordsmen. If I recall correctly one of them features Itto Ittosai, and another that features Nobutsuna. I used to have all three, and still have the one with Nobutsuna.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Nov 8, 2017 22:30:52 GMT
WHY ADRIAN? ? WHY MAKE THIS SOOOOO DIFFICULT!! I am having a hard time narrowing them down...
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Post by Croccifixio on Nov 16, 2017 5:23:17 GMT
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