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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 17, 2019 19:23:39 GMT
The Age of Malborough is three generations removed form the English Civil War. Weaponry is always a statement of the period art and culture. The train moves on. Basket hilts have evolved. The German/Walloon (Haudegen) is still a popular form of half basket. Full basket swords are less elaborate and blades are optional. The courtly smallsword is morphing into something heftier and longer (epee forte). The Hungarian-Polish sabers have infiltrated west europe starting 1660. Shiavonas and Morts are pretty much out by 1700. Thanks for the answer. I asked because I have serious trouble finding out what sword the English/British horse and dragoons used. My goooglefu gets me nothing. But I know the swedish and Danes had standard models by this time. I would assume the English had too. British didn't "officially" regulate their swords until 1788. The French in 1683. Regimental Colonels had a great deal of autonomy in weapons.
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Post by nordmann on Mar 17, 2019 19:36:20 GMT
Thanks for the answer. I asked because I have serious trouble finding out what sword the English/British horse and dragoons used. My goooglefu gets me nothing. But I know the swedish and Danes had standard models by this time. I would assume the English had too. British didn't "officially" regulate their swords until 1788. The French in 1683. Regimental Colonels had a great deal of autonomy in weapons. Thank you. So any 18th century basket hilted sword could have been used in the first half of the 18th century in the British cavalry? I'm sorry this is getting very of topic.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 18, 2019 9:50:48 GMT
British didn't "officially" regulate their swords until 1788. The French in 1683. Regimental Colonels had a great deal of autonomy in weapons. Thank you. So any 18th century basket hilted sword could have been used in the first half of the 18th century in the British cavalry? I'm sorry this is getting very of topic. It's conceivable that old arsenal stock could get back in the hands of militia call outs, but line regiments are fashion slaves. It's doubtful. I've found a couple of picks of issued 1720 hilts, need to transfer to imgur or photobucket before I can post here. Will do this evening.
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Post by markus313 on Mar 18, 2019 15:10:22 GMT
I wonder if the one I handled was a particularly light example then, as it didn't seem to be that heavy in the blade. It was actually sort of disappointing how non meaty the blade was. The cs Scottish sword on the other hand was massive. I had the same experience. My cs backsword blade was so dainty I didn't feel comfortable test cutting with it and I wound up returning it. It was an odd sword to assess in general. The hilt was huge. I could straight up two hand it even with the basket. It still felt pretty good to drill with though, really nimble and almost spadroon like. Oh well, Dave Kelly’s stats show an even more dainty sword than my lighter version, which I much prefer over my heavy one (which isn`t ill-suited for the style I practise but not as good as the lighter one). Can`t wait to get hands on my third one. By now it seems I got an extraordinary heavy exemplar with my first acquisition.
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pgandy
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Senior Forumite
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Post by pgandy on Mar 18, 2019 16:29:36 GMT
If you throw in KoA's figures you get more variations. I am glad that KoA publishes statistics but with the variation in lower end swords I have to take any statistics with a grain of salt.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 18, 2019 20:41:08 GMT
I'm still going back and forth on whether I want a Cromwell, and this isn't helping. Nice to know everybody likes theirs, but the variation makes me uneasy.
Couple that with really just not liking the "antiqued" finish.
Then there's the Cold Steel... Couple reasons I can't make myself like that one, but eh...
I really wish there were more (affordable) options.
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Post by Dave Kelly on Mar 19, 2019 3:07:48 GMT
Thank you. So any 18th century basket hilted sword could have been used in the first half of the 18th century in the British cavalry? I'm sorry this is getting very of topic. It's conceivable that old arsenal stock could get back in the hands of militia call outs, but line regiments are fashion slaves. It's doubtful. I've found a couple of picks of issued 1720 hilts, need to transfer to imgur or photobucket before I can post here. Will do this evening. Idea of early 18th Century baskethilts for cavalry. Walloons for many applications also pleantiful. Basket broadswords. One on right for kings guards. Primitive backsword.
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Post by nordmann on Mar 20, 2019 14:50:13 GMT
Thank you!
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Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 20, 2019 19:20:36 GMT
It's conceivable that old arsenal stock could get back in the hands of militia call outs, but line regiments are fashion slaves. It's doubtful. I've found a couple of picks of issued 1720 hilts, need to transfer to imgur or photobucket before I can post here. Will do this evening. Idea of early 18th Century baskethilts for cavalry. Walloons for many applications also pleantiful. Basket broadswords. One on right for kings guards. Primitive backsword. So what really defines a walloon? I've heard people say that it has to have a tumbring, or it has to be for cavalry use, but it all seems a little muddy. Is a walloon just a catch all for early half basket swords?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 20, 2019 21:33:49 GMT
Actually, the term gets used somewhat loosely myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13795Walloon regarded a group of people and their swords labeled such were generally without side bars/baskets. Like "mortuary" swords, forms used by both the infantry and cavalry with lots of blade types. My later 17th century sword often labeled a haudegen and has a broad, fairly thin blade better suited to slashing vs a very stiff 19th century poker. Some would regard mine as almost floppy. Comparing my similar bladed 19th century sword, nowhere as stiff as my French 1854 dragon. What's in a name anyway? The Dutch walloon without extra side bars, just a single D and thumbring. The thumbrings hung on to the later 18th century in some instancs but were largely gone by the early 18th century.
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Post by elbrittania39 on Mar 20, 2019 22:55:26 GMT
Actually, the term gets used somewhat loosely myarmoury.com/talk/viewtopic.php?t=13795Walloon regarded a group of people and their swords labeled such were generally without side bars/baskets. Like "mortuary" swords, forms used by both the infantry and cavalry with lots of blade types. My later 17th century sword often labeled a haudegen and has a broad, fairly thin blade better suited to slashing vs a very stiff 19th century poker. Some would regard mine as almost floppy. Comparing my similar bladed 19th century sword, nowhere as stiff as my French 1854 dragon. What's in a name anyway? The Dutch walloon without extra side bars, just a single D and thumbring. The thumbrings hung on to the later 18th century in some instancs but were largely gone by the early 18th century. Thanks! I know the "official" name for a sword isnt terribly important and is subject to interpretation, but I always found walloons to be in a particularly vague spot.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 22, 2019 20:05:02 GMT
I'm still going back and forth on whether I want a Cromwell, and this isn't helping. Nice to know everybody likes theirs, but the variation makes me uneasy. Couple that with really just not liking the "antiqued" finish. Then there's the Cold Steel... Couple reasons I can't make myself like that one, but eh... I really wish there were more (affordable) options. The antiqued finish is the only reason I haven't pulled the trigger on the cromwell a long time ago. Same. It's a nice sword, but I just can't get into artificial aging. Hey, bpogue, what are the chances of seeing these offered with a normal, polished finish?
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 22, 2019 20:16:44 GMT
It's not too hard to sand it off. I used sanding sponges a few minutes until it looked like a bit worn satin. Still too lazy to polish it better. But when it arrived the blade was really ugly.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 22, 2019 20:55:13 GMT
Yeah, fine, but that's like...effort. I don't wanna. Hanwei offers (offered?) their "bastard sword" in antiqued or regular finish, so it puzzles me why this isn't an option for all their swords; especially those only offered "antiqued" to begin with. Seems an extra step to polish up a blade, however minimally, then etch it or whatever process they use to get the effect. Why not just set a few aside that don't get that finish? Otherwise, a really appealing sword that I would love to have, except for the effort in removing the finish...
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Post by AndiTheBarvarian on Mar 22, 2019 21:02:44 GMT
Of course having a choice would be better. But no one would choose the antiqued blade if he ever has seen one with his own eyes... I only wanted to say you can have a nice mort without much effort.
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Post by randomnobody on Mar 22, 2019 21:34:25 GMT
But still effort. And why antique it, anyway? So many swords I'd have bought over the years that I decided against because I didn't like/feel like changing the finish. Back to the review.
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Post by markus313 on Apr 5, 2019 19:10:08 GMT
Here are the stats for my third CS SEB. It’s the lightest of the bunch. Not only does it have the thinnest foible out of my exemplars, also the back edge is ground down the furthest (pics will follow). Needless to say, it is the most “nimble”, too. Good flex, not too much, not too stiff, neither. Just like with the second one I got, heat treatment seems just right. The blade is perfectly straight and comes back to true, even with heavy impact thrusts that fail to penetrate immobile targets. Point and edge are well sharpened, 12 layers of heavy denim are no problem with thrusts (fixed on a block of Styrofoam), eight layers of the same denim taped over an insulation tube that’s put on a loosely fixed pole of fir wood are no problems cutting through, deeply into the wood, either. Good sword OOTB. Attachments:
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Post by Siward on Apr 6, 2019 8:47:26 GMT
Here are the stats for my third CS SEB. It’s the lightest of the bunch. Not only does it have the thinnest foible out of my exemplars, also the back edge is ground down the furthest (pics will follow). Needless to say, it is the most “nimble”, too. Good flex, not too much, not too stiff, neither. Just like with the second one I got, heat treatment seems just right. The blade is perfectly straight and comes back to true, even with heavy impact thrusts that fail to penetrate immobile targets. Tip and point are well sharpened, 12 layers of heavy denim are no problem with thrusts (fixed on a block of Styrofoam), eight layers of the same denim taped over an insulation tube that’s put on a loosely fixed pole of fir wood are no problems cutting through, deeply into the wood, either. Good sword OOTB. Interesting. So CS have refined the sword over a period. I wonder if that was in response to customer reviews and feedback?
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Post by markus313 on Apr 6, 2019 17:20:04 GMT
Interesting. So CS have refined the sword over a period. I wonder if that was in response to customer reviews and feedback? Really not sure if it hints at refinement or just shows variation/inconsistency of production.
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