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Post by Croccifixio on Sept 8, 2017 16:42:30 GMT
So, I never really thought to arm myself anytime soon, but the state of my country and certain personal circumstances necessitate that I bite the bullet (pun intended) and grab myself a handgun or two.
I was always a gun fan though, and have shot before with an M16 and a .45 ACP Taurus so I somewhat have an idea of what I want.
My thoughts are:
Handgun 1:
Full-sized 1911 base, single-stack large caliber (choices are either 40 S&W, 38 Super, 45 ACP, or 10mm). Right now I'm leaning towards the 38 Super because of the mix between power and control. However, its ammo is the most expensive (least expensive would be the 40 and 10mm) from where I live, so training would definitely be more expensive. Also, I have access to a large supply of free 45 ACP and 40 S&W so those options are much more attractive for marksmanship training.
Use would be for home defense, inside a vehicle, inside my office, and in any open/public space.
As such, what caliber should I choose? Some additional factors that might have to be taken into consideration: I live in a condominium unit with my wife, two baby girls, and two other women so while there is some security at the lobby, it's not really enough. Also the place isn't big, so maybe there is a risk of over penetration. On the plus side, there are really good places to take cover while reloading.
Handgun 2:
9mm for concealed carry. Ideally it would be in a compact Glock-style platform, but the availability of compact guns here isn't all that good, and what's available is often quite expensive which necessitates some saving up. I will most likely save up for a CZ P10c or Glock 19 Gen 4/5 (these guns are almost double the US price) for next year, but in the meantime I will have to resort to other options.
These other options are basically a CZ SP01/EAA Witness clone (basically Tanfolgio - the Armscor/RIA MAP1/MAPP) in double stack form (16 mag capacity), or a compact 1911 Colt Commander/Officer-style (with a 4.25 inch/3.5 inch barrel, in single stack form).
The reason I need one now is that I often enter places which have strict gun rules, and I plan to ignore those rules to ensure my/my family's safety. So the concealability of the 1911 is probably the most important aspect of it, but the firepower of 16+1 is tempting. Also, I have access to almost an unlimited supply of 9mm (well not really unlimited, but basically the government arsenal) so I can practice practice practice right off the bat.
So, which one?
Option 3:
Combine both into 1 package and just get a single expensive gun. If so, what gun? I am honestly drawn to the 10mm double stack that houses 16+1 but I definitely cannot conceal that. A Glock 17 would need further accessories to perform to the level I want, and good defensive 9mm rounds like hydra shok are really expensive. Glocks in 40 or 45 are relatively rare and not very cheap at all so I wouldn't even be able to afford mods for that.
Thanks for the help friends!
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Post by Cosmoline on Sept 8, 2017 19:29:01 GMT
I really prefer bog standard 1911 in .45 ACP. The .38 super is cool but kind of anachronistic now and personally I'd only be using it if I was competing or using it as a range gun. There's just such an epic range of selection for the .45 ACP. Some combinations of body types and clothing conceal the 1911 better than others. I've seen many of them inadvertently revealed over the years--usually IWB carried and imprinting on the jeans very plainly. They are a big piece of steel. So you really need to have the right marriage between frame size, holster and clothing/body type.
The Glocks I've owned have all been solid performers and the abundance of Glock certified armorers makes getting upgrades and repairs very easy. Frankly I sold mine off because they were boring. Not tack drivers, but reliable fist-size groups at 20 yards for the most part.
Overall though after decades of trying different systems I've settled on keeping it simple. I have a Ruger Speed Six or single stack Sig for CCW and a shotgun for home defense. I'm not a big believer in using handguns unless you have no other choice in the matter. The long gun, whether shotgun or AR-15, has considerable advantages if concealing is not needed.
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Post by howler on Sept 8, 2017 19:38:09 GMT
If you get a Glock .40 caliber, you can purchase drop in barrels in 9mm and .357 sig. for a little over $100 each. Huge selection of quality firearms to choose from. Revolvers have certain advantages.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 8, 2017 19:47:15 GMT
I have experience with firearms. It sounds like you and your family are in a very hostile environment. Before I ask and answer your concerns, I would like to see if forum member and firearms instructor, Richard Arias comments. I just sent him a link to this thread.
For example, since I don't know what's available in your country:
1. You can access large sums 9mm, .40 s&w and 45acp. Are they all ball ammo? If so, can you buy specialized defensive rounds (at least jacketed hollow points)?
2. If you need it now, what quality pistols can you access now?
3. Do you need a concealed carry AND a home defense firearm for others when you are not home?
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Post by treeslicer on Sept 8, 2017 19:55:03 GMT
M1911 in .45 ACP. Start at the top and you'll never regret it.
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Post by Elrikk on Sept 8, 2017 21:14:18 GMT
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Sept 8, 2017 23:15:14 GMT
Get a good pistol safe you can anchor. Buy a commander size 1911. My old PD flocks, a 22 and a 23, are good guns and I bought mags and barrels to convert them to 9mm, 357 Sig, and 40 to be used with lead bullets for cheaper practice. The Smith m&p series are excellent andx economical.
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Post by Croccifixio on Sept 8, 2017 23:35:25 GMT
I really prefer bog standard 1911 in .45 ACP. The .38 super is cool but kind of anachronistic now and personally I'd only be using it if I was competing or using it as a range gun. There's just such an epic range of selection for the .45 ACP. Some combinations of body types and clothing conceal the 1911 better than others. I've seen many of them inadvertently revealed over the years--usually IWB carried and imprinting on the jeans very plainly. They are a big piece of steel. So you really need to have the right marriage between frame size, holster and clothing/body type. The Glocks I've owned have all been solid performers and the abundance of Glock certified armorers makes getting upgrades and repairs very easy. Frankly I sold mine off because they were boring. Not tack drivers, but reliable fist-size groups at 20 yards for the most part. Overall though after decades of trying different systems I've settled on keeping it simple. I have a Ruger Speed Six or single stack Sig for CCW and a shotgun for home defense. I'm not a big believer in using handguns unless you have no other choice in the matter. The long gun, whether shotgun or AR-15, has considerable advantages if concealing is not needed. I am leaning towards the 45 if only for the fact I can practice with it often, but the 38 Super is extremely attractive for what it supposedly brings - more penetration, flatter trajectory, less recoil. As for rifles, my wife was pretty adamant about no long arms (rifle/shotgun). I used to have an M16 issues to me but eventually she asked me to return it. She's already resistant enough as it is to a gun so I won't challenge her on this. I have experience with firearms. It sounds like you and your family are in a very hostile environment. Before I ask and answer your concerns, I would like to see if forum member and firearms instructor, Richard Arias comments. I just sent him a link to this thread. For example, since I don't know what's available in your country: 1. You can access large sums 9mm, .40 s&w and 45acp. Are they all ball ammo? If so, can you buy specialized defensive rounds (at least jacketed hollow points)? 2. If you need it now, what quality pistols can you access now? 3. Do you need a concealed carry AND a home defense firearm for others when you are not home? For what's available... well most types and brands are available, it's just that they don't come cheap. I need to keep it somewhat affordable, so no Gold Cups/Les Baer for me... yet. As for the 9mm, 40, and 45 access, they're a mix of FMJ and JHP. Quality pistols... best options are RIAs/Armscors since they're locally made and they have a sale ongoing. I have a Colt 1911A1 series 80 that my father-in-law owns which he's in the process of transferring to me (strict gun laws require a more convoluted process for selling/passing down a gun to someone). Second most available would be Glocks (am ignoring Taurus and Norinco, which are quite plentiful), then CZ, then maybe S&W, Colt, Sig Sauer, Walther, HK in that order. Springfield Armoury is sadly hard to find. Kimber is available but outside the price range. I need concealed carry and principally open carry/vehicle carry. When I'm not at home there are bodyguards who take care of the security. Long story short, I'm in what you could say a political family and the climate is extremely hostile nowadays. The biggest threat are mostly motorcycle assassins (we call them riding in tandem), and 13k people are dead in the current so-called War on Drugs waged by the government, half at the hands of the motorcycle assassins (who are, according to journalist reports, mostly hired by government or who are police themselves), and half at the hands of police themselves (allegedly killed resisting arrest... even when handcuffed). Anyway enough about the situation, but it's reached a point where I need a weapon I can bring to bear quickly enough. Just a few days ago a lawyer was killed because he was helping poor people who were being charged with drug possession. He was killed in his car at an intersection. And so many others have been killed this way.
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Post by Croccifixio on Sept 8, 2017 23:51:40 GMT
Hm what's the minimum number of rounds for a double stack in your opinion? RIA carries one with 13. Is that enough?
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Post by Elrikk on Sept 8, 2017 23:59:03 GMT
Hm what's the minimum number of rounds for a double stack in your opinion? RIA carries one with 13. Is that enough? I think that's a good number...I don't foresee many home defense scenarios turning into a firefight...lol.
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Post by Croccifixio on Sept 9, 2017 0:02:12 GMT
You'd be surprised With how little people practice marksmanship here... I'll dig up a story for you that's just extremely sad and funny at the same time. Edit: found it - here you go www.glocktalk.com/threads/only-in-the-philippines.326636/M1911 in .45 ACP. Start at the top and you'll never regret it. Spoken like a true man! Hahaha
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Sept 9, 2017 0:21:41 GMT
A handgun is what you use to fight your way to your rifle
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Sept 9, 2017 0:25:28 GMT
The only double stack 45 that fits normal to small hands the XDM 45. I really love mine.
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Post by Elrikk on Sept 9, 2017 1:18:06 GMT
My XDm compact fills both rolls, 13 rounds with the extended grip/mag and compact enough to carry...if I could in NJ...which I can't...and probably never will...we ARE allowed to carry flowers in which to give to our attackers as a peace offering...
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Sept 9, 2017 2:48:37 GMT
Eat your atta kers
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Post by Croccifixio on Sept 9, 2017 3:59:11 GMT
A handgun is what you use to fight your way to your rifle Yeah... well I learned just now that military ammo is not allowed to be sold to civilians UNLESS I apply to be a gun collector. I just have to pay a huge fee for that. So it will be a consideration for next year.
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on Sept 9, 2017 4:11:08 GMT
You could get a rifle in a non military caliber
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Post by harrybeck on Sept 9, 2017 4:13:54 GMT
The best bet is to cultivate situational awareness and avoid what you can, don't forget that a vehicle has more foot pounds of energy than a thousand handguns.
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Post by howler on Sept 9, 2017 5:04:37 GMT
My XDm compact fills both rolls, 13 rounds with the extended grip/mag and compact enough to carry...if I could in NJ...which I can't...and probably never will...we ARE allowed to carry flowers in which to give to our attackers as a peace offering... Ah, flowers, a way to break the ice in your attackers hearts before they commence their unwanted sexual advances on you and your loved ones poor, unarmed arses. But, at least your attackers have the guns, and the police are only 30 minutes away...just enough time to finish the donut and prepare the paperwork for assessing the damage and blame when they get to the extensive crime scene (where you and your loved ones happen to be).
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Post by howler on Sept 9, 2017 5:09:13 GMT
Post apocalyptic (SHTF) world, that (sadly) will be a probable occurrence. The Solyent Green solution. Speaking of which, I haven't had dinner yet and am getting hungry.
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