A pair of Birmingham beauties. (Shooting the Webley)
Jul 8, 2017 11:12:29 GMT
Post by stopped1 on Jul 8, 2017 11:12:29 GMT
The story so long.... the year was 1947, two English beauties were born in post war Birmingham, they were separated at birth, one was sent to sub tropical Hong Kong, the other was sent to southern tip of African. blah blah blah, 60 years later they land up in my gun safe and lived happily thereafter.
So I like old guns and swords. And I like to think that I am preserving pieces of history by collecting and studying them. Having lived in both Hong Kong and South Africa, I decided that I NEED to have their police firearms in my collection. First price would be a South African Z88 (M92F made locally by LIW) and a RHKP S&W Mod 10 heavy barrel in 38spl. Well no such luck in Australia, the "Wobbly Webley" would be far more common here. Took 2 years to find an SAP marked Webley Mk IV, wasn't expensive at $450 AUD (like $350US or so) but the HKP marked Webley.... I looked at used gun and gun auction sites weekly for 6 years and only found one 2 months ago at an auction, got it at $650, plus buyers fees, shipping and interstate dealers fees and it was $800 plus whenI got it.....
Anyway, how do they shoot? I shot those "Wobblies" several time when I was younger and I wasn't impressed, terrible triggers, tiny sight and never seemed to group. Its only the past few year when I took up shooting seriously, I understood more and wondered how they really shoot? I think the biggest problem in the accuracy department is the lack of ammo, normal 38 S&W works but they are smaller in OD, they are .357 but the old English guns have .360 bores. Unless I can get some newly made .380" Mk IIz ammo from India (the only gig that makes old mil spec 38/200 ammo), accuracy will bit be ideal. I have tried to resize Makarov bullets, they worked ok but way too light and shot low. The only thing left to try is the 357 hollowbase wad cutters, the hollow base should expand to seal up the bore nicely.
So it did, carefully working out the load to 2.4gr of AP50N (similar to Universal), OAL 27mm, I got it to shoot very decent groups. I forgot to bring my Chrony today, but at 2.2gr OAL 28mm I was getting 550fps with 148HBWC (99 ft/lb) out of the 4 inch, I would expect to get another 50fps out for 118ft/lbs, not full mil spec but not something I would laugh at neither
25 meters shoots like this, with both gun, that's a 9 ring sized group
I was only shooting off the barricade PPC style, the triggers were heavy and the sights were tiny so I would expect to shrink the group by another 0.5-1 inch from a decent rest. One gun was shooting to the left but I don't really mind, if I would to go to war with it and carry it for self defense I will get the armorer to open up the rear sight notch a bit to shift the point of impact anyway. I would be confident, knowing the gun will take a 25 meters head shots with ease, if I do my part that is.
Upon closer inspection, I realized that both bores were not as good as I thought, one has a damaged crown and the other has small rust pits close to the muzzle. I couldn't bring myself to recrown/ counterbore the barrels but hell I wonder how good would the shoot when new.
So, did the English know how to make a revolver with good barrel and tight lock up? Yes they did.
The 38 webley only look small, they are actually quiet bad, the 5 inch model is as long as my 6 inch STI so for the size I could pack way more firepower if I were allowed to carry guns, but there's just something about these English beauties I can't name, I love them
So I like old guns and swords. And I like to think that I am preserving pieces of history by collecting and studying them. Having lived in both Hong Kong and South Africa, I decided that I NEED to have their police firearms in my collection. First price would be a South African Z88 (M92F made locally by LIW) and a RHKP S&W Mod 10 heavy barrel in 38spl. Well no such luck in Australia, the "Wobbly Webley" would be far more common here. Took 2 years to find an SAP marked Webley Mk IV, wasn't expensive at $450 AUD (like $350US or so) but the HKP marked Webley.... I looked at used gun and gun auction sites weekly for 6 years and only found one 2 months ago at an auction, got it at $650, plus buyers fees, shipping and interstate dealers fees and it was $800 plus whenI got it.....
Anyway, how do they shoot? I shot those "Wobblies" several time when I was younger and I wasn't impressed, terrible triggers, tiny sight and never seemed to group. Its only the past few year when I took up shooting seriously, I understood more and wondered how they really shoot? I think the biggest problem in the accuracy department is the lack of ammo, normal 38 S&W works but they are smaller in OD, they are .357 but the old English guns have .360 bores. Unless I can get some newly made .380" Mk IIz ammo from India (the only gig that makes old mil spec 38/200 ammo), accuracy will bit be ideal. I have tried to resize Makarov bullets, they worked ok but way too light and shot low. The only thing left to try is the 357 hollowbase wad cutters, the hollow base should expand to seal up the bore nicely.
So it did, carefully working out the load to 2.4gr of AP50N (similar to Universal), OAL 27mm, I got it to shoot very decent groups. I forgot to bring my Chrony today, but at 2.2gr OAL 28mm I was getting 550fps with 148HBWC (99 ft/lb) out of the 4 inch, I would expect to get another 50fps out for 118ft/lbs, not full mil spec but not something I would laugh at neither
25 meters shoots like this, with both gun, that's a 9 ring sized group
I was only shooting off the barricade PPC style, the triggers were heavy and the sights were tiny so I would expect to shrink the group by another 0.5-1 inch from a decent rest. One gun was shooting to the left but I don't really mind, if I would to go to war with it and carry it for self defense I will get the armorer to open up the rear sight notch a bit to shift the point of impact anyway. I would be confident, knowing the gun will take a 25 meters head shots with ease, if I do my part that is.
Upon closer inspection, I realized that both bores were not as good as I thought, one has a damaged crown and the other has small rust pits close to the muzzle. I couldn't bring myself to recrown/ counterbore the barrels but hell I wonder how good would the shoot when new.
So, did the English know how to make a revolver with good barrel and tight lock up? Yes they did.
The 38 webley only look small, they are actually quiet bad, the 5 inch model is as long as my 6 inch STI so for the size I could pack way more firepower if I were allowed to carry guns, but there's just something about these English beauties I can't name, I love them