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Post by adversary on May 23, 2017 13:49:49 GMT
Yeah, i know, not the proper way to go about it, but humor me.
Just wanting to get a feel for how big a sword you guys use and like, and how big you are. General recommendations? Yes i know individual schools may have individual ideas, but i did say general.
Height, any pertinent details (really long or short arms? i dont know), nagasa length, tsuka length.
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Post by Verity on May 23, 2017 17:07:58 GMT
As I understand it (note I am not formally trained in kenjutsu) is that arms at rest at your side the kissaki should be just above the ground. That measurement holding a katana at your side should give you the "proper" measurement.
Obviously I defer to anyone formally trained and whom knows better.
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Post by skane on May 23, 2017 17:44:25 GMT
6' 1". Nakamura Ryu practitioner. I use swords with nagasa 27" - 29", tsuka 10.7" - 11.5". I can use longer blades, but prefer using blades and tsuka lengths that are common with production katana.
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Post by wazikan on May 23, 2017 18:08:13 GMT
As I understand it (note I am not formally trained in kenjutsu) is that arms at rest at your side the kissaki should be just above the ground. That measurement holding a katana at your side should give you the "proper" measurement. Obviously I defer to anyone formally trained and whom knows better. this is the standard that I always use. I hear other people take about other methods. but this one has always been a functional way to see what size works. for me its also a good noto length. ive had people try to correct this way of measuring. but I always ask them why they use their method and most people can only say "that's how I was taught" but that's never been good enough for me.
im 6ft tall and my blade is 28 I have a 29 1/2 that is a great cutter and I love that blade also, but for me a good fighting length is 28
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Post by LG Martial Arts on May 23, 2017 18:47:41 GMT
I'm 5' 8" tall and I study Eishin Ryu Iaido, ranked as a Nidan. I'm also ranked as Sandan in Aikido. Most of the swords I use have a nagasa of 27" - 29"... my main iaito AND main shinken for tameshigiri are 29". My preferred tsuka length is between 10.5" - 12". Anything shorter or longer than that isn't as natural to me.
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Post by Verity on May 23, 2017 18:49:54 GMT
As I understand it (note I am not formally trained in kenjutsu) is that arms at rest at your side the kissaki should be just above the ground. That measurement holding a katana at your side should give you the "proper" measurement. Obviously I defer to anyone formally trained and whom knows better. this is the standard that I always use. I hear other people take about other methods. but this one has always been a functional way to see what size works. for me its also a good noto length. ive had people try to correct this way of measuring. but I always ask them why they use their method and most people can only say "that's how I was taught" but that's never been good enough for me.
im 6ft tall and my blade is 28 I have a 29 1/2 that is a great cutter and I love that blade also, but for me a good fighting length is 28
I'm 6'2" and find my "ideal" to be around 29-29.5, but I find that I work pretty well with anything between 28-30"
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Post by jammer on May 23, 2017 20:48:45 GMT
Yeah, i know, not the proper way to go about it, but humor me. Just wanting to get a feel for how big a sword you guys use and like, and how big you are. General recommendations? Yes i know individual schools may have individual ideas, but i did say general. Height, any pertinent details (really long or short arms? i dont know), nagasa length, tsuka length. If its kenjutsu, i.e. a pre meiji sword art with paired kata, then the school normally have a bokuto size that everyone uses. None learns real koryu kenjutsu with a live sword, its too dangerous. If you just mean like doing a mix of iai and general sword stuff like tameshigiri with a japanese sword then you need to get your blade length based on your draw. goo.gl/images/oogRpEThis image is the sequence of mae from the muso schools, i cal your attention to the second image from the left, at the top, in this position your entire kissaki and no more should still be inside the saya, assuming it is a medium chu kissaki style. A sword that achieves this is the correct sword length for you.
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Post by jammer on May 23, 2017 21:01:42 GMT
With regard to tsuka, it shouod be a golf type grip, the heel of you left hand should be over the butt, and the pointing finger of the right hand just under the tsuba, both hands should be almost touching. In practice this is normally 11.5 inches or there abouts.
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Post by jammer on May 23, 2017 21:05:46 GMT
So im 6 feet with a 2.5 shaku blade.
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Post by adversary on May 23, 2017 21:28:47 GMT
Interesting. And a lot of tall guys here. I'm 5'10" and have fairly long arms (73" wingspan). I've been looking for something in the 27-28" range, but nearly everything i find thats interesting is closer to 30". Maybe i should just not worry so much. I definitely like an 11"-11.5" tsuka, anything shorter does not feel natural.
By the standing test i could get away with 29.5", less if i really squish my arm to my side, more if i let it go naturally (i have very muscular lats). By the iaido draw test i could get away with 29.5" -30".
And yes... i'm talking the whole gamut of sword work. Kenjutsu (suburi), iaido, tameshigiri, etc.
I'm assuming when you guys here are speaking nagasa length, that does NOT include the habaki?
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Post by Verity on May 23, 2017 21:39:21 GMT
I do not include habaki in nagasa length as it is not meant to.
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Post by wazikan on May 23, 2017 23:04:03 GMT
With regard to tsuka, it shouod be a golf type grip, the heel of you left hand should be over the butt, and the pointing finger of the right hand just under the tsuba, both hands should be almost touching. In practice this is normally 11.5 inches or there abouts. in every art I have practiced they generally use 3 hands. the only change to this is when I did iaido and they tended to use a shorter tsuka. I use a 13-14 inch. but prefer a 13. when you get in past the cutting range it helps when you need to grapple with the sword. to me its all about preference. what ever makes you comfortable
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 17:48:09 GMT
I've always measured blade length from mune machi to tip.
5'10", current preference is 26.25 inch blade, 13.25 tsuka. Out for polish, hope to see it again soon.
Right hand below fuchi gives more range of motion and better articulation than against tsuba.
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Post by jammer on May 24, 2017 18:20:04 GMT
With regard to tsuka, it shouod be a golf type grip, the heel of you left hand should be over the butt, and the pointing finger of the right hand just under the tsuba, both hands should be almost touching. In practice this is normally 11.5 inches or there abouts. in every art I have practiced they generally use 3 hands. the only change to this is when I did iaido and they tended to use a shorter tsuka. I use a 13-14 inch. but prefer a 13. when you get in past the cutting range it helps when you need to grapple with the sword. to me its all about preference. what ever makes you comfortable
During the 16th century short swordsmen, jutte-men, and so on, were grabbing the tsuka between the two hands and neutralising the long sword, the shorter tsuka was born from that problem, and maximisig the blade length based on drawing the sword quickly was an invention of the muso schools of iai eventually leading to the, almost ubiquotous, chu kissaki in iaijutsu (post 17th century). That is my understanding of the phenomenom of shorter handles and fitted blades.
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Post by jammer on May 24, 2017 20:04:48 GMT
The habaki is academic, and incuded in the draw length.
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Post by Verity on May 24, 2017 20:26:26 GMT
The habaki is academic, and incuded in the draw length. Draw length yes. But measurement of "nagasa" does not include it. Nagasa is measured from munemachi to tip of kissaki.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 20:33:22 GMT
in every art I have practiced they generally use 3 hands. the only change to this is when I did iaido and they tended to use a shorter tsuka. I use a 13-14 inch. but prefer a 13. when you get in past the cutting range it helps when you need to grapple with the sword. to me its all about preference. what ever makes you comfortable
During the 16th century short swordsmen, jutte-men, and so on, were grabbing the tsuka between the two hands and neutralising the long sword, the shorter tsuka was born from that problem, and maximisig the blade length based on drawing the sword quickly was an invention of the muso schools of iai eventually leading to the, almost ubiquotous, chu kissaki in iaijutsu (post 17th century). That is my understanding of the phenomenom of shorter handles and fitted blades. Thats pretty interesting, there is no jutte I am aware of that even begins to approach katana blade length, yet many people here insist that reach is a massive advantage. If that were the case jutte men should be dead before having a chance to neutralize by grabbing handle.
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Post by wazikan on May 24, 2017 20:57:32 GMT
in every art I have practiced they generally use 3 hands. the only change to this is when I did iaido and they tended to use a shorter tsuka. I use a 13-14 inch. but prefer a 13. when you get in past the cutting range it helps when you need to grapple with the sword. to me its all about preference. what ever makes you comfortable
During the 16th century short swordsmen, jutte-men, and so on, were grabbing the tsuka between the two hands and neutralising the long sword, the shorter tsuka was born from that problem, and maximisig the blade length based on drawing the sword quickly was an invention of the muso schools of iai eventually leading to the, almost ubiquotous, chu kissaki in iaijutsu (post 17th century). That is my understanding of the phenomenom of shorter handles and fitted blades. the history stuff I have read seems that after the samurai were put down and swords were worn for ceremonial reasons. this is when they started to make things smaller. they made them easier to carry around. but who really knows Ü
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Post by jammer on May 24, 2017 21:29:49 GMT
During the 16th century short swordsmen, jutte-men, and so on, were grabbing the tsuka between the two hands and neutralising the long sword, the shorter tsuka was born from that problem, and maximisig the blade length based on drawing the sword quickly was an invention of the muso schools of iai eventually leading to the, almost ubiquotous, chu kissaki in iaijutsu (post 17th century). That is my understanding of the phenomenom of shorter handles and fitted blades. Thats pretty interesting, there is no jutte I am aware of that even begins to approach katana blade length, yet many people here insist that reach is a massive advantage. If that were the case jutte men should be dead before having a chance to neutralize by grabbing handle. most jutte school start off with a left and right kata for intercepting the blade and grabbing the tsuka, aiming for between the sword wielders two hands. Sword schools eith jutte in them have a way of countering this, but it is based on a katana tsuka. As a lay person you could study the various ryu bokuto, and see if any advocate long tsuka, none do, afaik.
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Post by Deleted on May 24, 2017 21:50:53 GMT
Sure, makes sense. Most important thing is to do as instructed and to conform to the program.
Still a jutte is not as long as a katana regardless of whether your handle is 6" or 15", so the insistence on reach seems to be the wrong thing to fixate on.
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