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Post by kswaywardson on May 19, 2017 13:28:11 GMT
Apologies as I am unsure of the technical term for this cut. I know kesa giri as diagonal...and it is upper left to lower right. The opposite from upper right to left feels more natural...being right handed of course. Do you just have to practice until it "feels more natural"? Does anyone have any techniques for left to right? Sorry if this sounds confusing.
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Post by 28shadow on May 19, 2017 13:32:59 GMT
Are you having difficulty with this cut during test cutting or are you having difficulty with the motions in general?
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Post by Jussi Ekholm on May 19, 2017 13:41:40 GMT
I think it's called migi kesagiri. Hopefully some martial artists will chime in with tips.
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Post by Cosmoline on May 19, 2017 16:08:00 GMT
Right handers often feel weird making shoulder cuts from the left side. Liechtenauer disfavors cuts from the left, but they do occur and you have to drill them. I've never reached a point where they feel natural. The left side is of the devil ;-)
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on May 19, 2017 16:26:22 GMT
The most common mistake people make when cutting left-> right is they let their elbows 'chicken wing' out, thus decreasing structural stability, which in turn leads to compromised edge alignment. Make sure that you bring you elbows in, so that you create a structure whereby your hands and arms are 'behind' the sword rather than 'beside'.
I prefer to coach this telling people to tuck the elbows in, I know other instructors say to focus on the grip as if you are twisting the two hands in like when you wring out a towel. Of course there are a ton of possible problems, so without seeing your motion I can only take a shot in the dark.
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Post by kswaywardson on May 19, 2017 16:45:28 GMT
Really good points, Sean F. I am very new at cutting, so there are all kinds of things which I may be doing incorrectly (and probably am). When I cut from right to left, most of the time it results in a relatively "decent" cut (for a newbie of course). But from left to right, it sort of seems like it glances off. Definitely can tell on milk jugs. On trying the diagonal, there is never really a nice clean 45 cut, more like a 30 or shallower. I may be "chicken winging" the cut as you say.
Sean, when you instruct cutting in general, do you suggest using your "whole body" in the cut. Like using shoulders, arms, and cutting all the way through with the hips (kind of like a pitcher who follows through off the mound.) Or should the movements be shorter and concise? Maybe it depends on what (size, thickness, etc.) you are cutting?
Also, I might not be "wringing my hands" correctly, or using a "chopping" instead "slicing" movement. I noticed this when trying pool noodles. Darn thing kept popping back up. Then I thought to myself to try a more "ellipse" like motion, and that kind of helped.
Sorry if there are so many things I am trying to hit on, but its really fun and entertaining. I can see why people want to soak up as much knowledge to improve!
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SeanF
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Post by SeanF on May 19, 2017 16:59:56 GMT
I would recommend that you practice swinging in the air and listening to the sound to check edge alignment. If you can't get the good sound in the air there isn't much point in cutting targets (other than fun).
- The whole body should always be used to cut. The art to it is using the whole body in short concise movements. I would recommend you start with things big, and then as you improve make them smaller. - You only need to cut through the target, not all the way to the ground. Once you move through the target the rest is follow through, and you don't need to be adding power. - Think about moving the tip forward, and having the shape of your arms rotate the blade through your target. Don't cut 'down'. - Slicing vs hewing: I don't do JSA, so I can't comment. I know that slicing with the cut is 'common knowledge', but there is also HEMA common knowledge about cutting which is completely ineffectual and propagated by people who can't cut their way out of a cardboard box. So I can't speak to any stylistically differences.
This may be helpful:
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Post by kswaywardson on May 19, 2017 17:24:42 GMT
Sean, that was an informative video. Thanks for posting that. I might not be putting enough rotation into the cut as was mentioned.
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Post by Cosmoline on May 19, 2017 21:41:02 GMT
Great point about rotation in the video. You're scribing part of an arc with every cut, even small ones. It's important to be able to control where your axis of rotation is, and be aware of it. Beginners will often lock the arm and put the point of rotation at the shoulder, producing a stiff and overly wide arc that's martially ineffective and tends to send the target flying instead of cutting. A proper longsword cut can be made with variations in rotation points, but it tends to have a point closer to the blade or on the blade, with the blade being presented or "punched" forward ahead of the hands and body. Of course getting this to work with your left side can be very challenging, especially if you are not allowed to have your left hand on top. Left training is like leg day.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 20, 2017 4:18:31 GMT
I say try doing two things, like spend a week or two doing one then the other, then back again. Do that for 2-3 months. When you practice I suggest alternating left side, right side, 2 cuts as a pair, whatever amount of reps you can do where you get value from the practice and aren't just grinding for numbers. 5 good ones are worth more than 1,000 you sleepwalk through.
Cutting either side downward diagonal, bring your left hand to whichever hip.
Then, instead of the hand to the hip, bring the elbow of whichever side you are cutting from to your torso, so your upper arm is in contact with your chest.
Don't crush the hand or the elbow / upper arm into yourself, go for just a touch. Chill out, move at a pace where you can do it smoothly and you aren't being pulled by momentum.
I like this range personally since I keep myself within my base, however that isn't the point of this. If you want to project your sword out you can later, this will help normalize your cutting motion.
Cheers
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Post by kswaywardson on May 20, 2017 22:47:29 GMT
Jon, that's a good idea. I might be trying to do much all at once. There are probably too many variables that could go wrong when stretching/reaching too far with the sword. By taking much shorter/more brisk movements, I will be limiting the amount of errors that could be occurring? Aka baby steps? I do have a katana I am using with a nice bohi. Just cant get the good whistle. Its there, just not crisp.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2017 0:14:18 GMT
I like wringing the handle, the system I study tells me to wring the handle. However as a starting point you can also try something I got from a different place where there is no wringing.
When you hold the sword, make it so the blunt back side is in line with the bones of the forearm. When you curl your fingers around the handle, make your knuckles align with the edge. Now practice your swing and you should get your whistle.
I find killing off as many variables as possible to simplify matters helps a ton. Start small, get that detail sorted out, then start building. You'll constantly double back but that isn't a problem. When I learn new things, I find it inspiring to loop back to the bare basics and start finding those "Oh that's what he meant" even if I am on my twentieth new interpretation of what he actually meant.
I used a blade with bo hi briefly - ended up getting a new guy in the group and new guy with no sword had a more impressing need than me with a pile of 'em. In a closed room, you can get that thing so loud you'd think you had a special effects team hiding somewhere, it can be really dramatic or very subtle. If you are outside it can be hard to go by sound.
For a time, I tried a game of how slowly could I cut and still get an audible sound. Once you start getting results, maybe that would be a fun and interesting thing to try for you?
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Post by wazikan on May 31, 2017 23:26:50 GMT
also if your not getting a good twist of your wrists it will throw off your alignment. that right hand really needs to twist over the tsuka and get behind the cut.
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