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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 14, 2017 14:03:33 GMT
Hi guys, I just acquired this antique smallsword. It is dated to around 1750 and most likely of French manufature. I am slowly putting together a collection of antique arms and with a back-ground in sport fencing I‘ve always had a soft spot for the smallsword. So I couldn‘t resist when I came across this smallsword in good condition. It is of utilitarian design with only moderate decoration, certainly up to being used (which is one reason I was drawn to it, I much prefer simple, usable weapons). The three-sided, deeply hollow ground blade is well formed, straight and with the exception of one small nick in the foible (from a duell perhaps?) in very good shape with minor corrosion. The first 10cm of the blade (from the point down) are honed to a keen sharpness on both edges, still quite easily slicing paper. The rest of the blade isn‘t brought down to a final edge with maybe 0.5mm left standing. The hilt is all steel, with a hollow pommel. There is just the slightest bit of play in the hilt, something I might fix later on. As one would expect from a smallsword, the blade is stiff and light, a wicked thruster. It is wonderfully light and nimble in hand, a true joy to handle. Stats: Overall length: 97cm Blade length: 80.5cm Blade width at base: 2.7cm Weight: 428g I‘m greatly enjoying this piece and could see making a replica of it some time. Especially the blade is just a cool piece of sword design, extremely well engineered for its purpose.
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pgandy
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Post by pgandy on May 14, 2017 18:40:57 GMT
Thanks for sharing, especially the details.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 15, 2017 5:10:28 GMT
Very nice serious weapon. Those blades are a joy to wield. The workmanship on yours is very well done and of understated elegance. Great buy. Congratulations. If you ever want to make a scabbard for it, I have a huge cache of original fittings.
Cheers.
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Post by bluetrain on May 15, 2017 11:18:57 GMT
I rather like swords like that myself and I consider them real weapons, at least in the context and historical period in which they were carried and used. I wouldn't call that moderate decoration at all but all I've ever seen for sale seemed to have at least that much ornamentation. I also find it interesting that virtually every smallsword from that period looks pretty much the same, except for variation in the decoration.
I also note that that one has a squarish-looking grip.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 15, 2017 21:31:59 GMT
Thanks guys, glad you like it as much as I do ;)
I too noticed the square grip. It is very comfortable in hand in fact but aesthetically, I'd probably prefer a more oval cross section. Oh well ;)
@uhlan: That is a offer I might take you up on... I will probably also contact you with some other questions regarding this piece and a possible restauration when I have the time.
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Post by legacyofthesword on May 15, 2017 21:39:57 GMT
Absolutely beautiful. Simple, elegant, and deadly - perfection.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 15, 2017 23:22:00 GMT
The square/rectangle grip sections arise with the diminishing (soon to be vestigal) pas de ane. They help align the edges and aid to fencing. If we look to Bashford Dean's catalog www.metmuseum.org/art/metpublications/catalogue_of_european_court_swords_and_hunting_swordsswordlinks.com/courtswords/courtswords.htmlwe see fancier dress/court swords with round and oval grips back to the beginning. Then view Neumann's books and you'll see a lot of squarish grips on later swords, especially the more civilian and military. placing a true age can be difficult. As pas e ane all but disappeared, the grip changes where one is pinching them and using them for steerage. The biggest beast I can recall was one I should have bought. A 37" blade. I have a shard of a blade that was clearly on the dressier side and ided through the Bashford Dean catalog as far as age and of folded "damascus" steel. Looks like a great acquisition andnice deals few and far between.
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harrybeck
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Post by harrybeck on May 16, 2017 1:58:08 GMT
Just lovely!
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 16, 2017 18:59:58 GMT
Thanks for the info on the grips, edelweiss. Interesting to see that the fancier dress swords had more oval grips whereas the "user" pieces tended to have square grip sections.
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Post by bluetrain on May 17, 2017 11:48:19 GMT
I was just thinking of that smallsword in comparison with the Cold Steel smallsword. The old one here has finer decoration. The Cold Steel version isn't bad, though, but the decorations on the hilt are not as sharp. I still find it interesting that virtually all antique smallswords are practically identical. Later smallswords, usually called court swords lose the little finger rings (whatever they're called) and the blade becomes a plain diamond shape and usually flimsier. They usually become more elaborate, too. The current U.S. Army NCO sword (almost never seen in the army) fits that description.
The Cold Steel version has a plain blade, although I judge it to be very good. But this antique sword is described as having a sharp blade for the first 10cm, the better to pierce and cut with. The Cold Steel version does not have a sharp edge, although the point is certainly sharp. But the Cold Steel Colichemarde sword, functionally almost the same (at 5 ounces heavier and 1 inch longer) is described as having a sharp blade. George Washington had one or two of each.
That sword was clearly made for fighting. And chances are, if you left the Cold Steel version outside overnight, it was look that old, too.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 17, 2017 15:19:49 GMT
The ,, finger rings '' are called Pas d'Ane. They go from large and functional to small or none existant through time. Also the pas d'Ane / Guillon block shrinks. This phenominon aids in classifying a small sword. Do not be fooled by the super fancy looks of some of the later small swords. They still could kill very effectively and those little blades found their way in walking sticks / canes and other gentlemanly outdoor city gear not for nothing. The added fun of those little blades is that once they are in motion, one can hardly see them, even in daylight. Only the hand that moves them. I kinda like it that way.
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Post by Lukas MG (chenessfan) on May 17, 2017 15:30:37 GMT
The problem with the Cold steel version is the weight. It weighs 700g, that is about 300g heavier than my (and other) original. It is 100g short of being twice (!) as heavy as the originals it is based on. The most important feature of a smallsword is its absolutely effortless handling. These things are built with utmost care to only have material where it is absolutely necessary. I don't think Cold Steel can deliver there, their piece is grossly overbuilt (goes for most of their swords, really).
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 17, 2017 16:36:10 GMT
Second that. There goes more knowhow in a small sword than a lot of people seem to realise. The CS Colichemarde is an affront to a real one. Why they made the thick upper part so long? Still the CS ,,efforts '' are very sturdy and will give the owner a lot of fun for a long time, but they have nothing in common with the real deal. G. G. Godwin had or has a good looking Colichemarde. You can find it here if they still have it: gggodwin-com.3dcartstores.com/ The piece is reviewed on MyArmoury.
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Post by Gregory P. on May 18, 2017 2:54:33 GMT
Firstly - Lovely sword Lukas - congrats. I love the understated decoration on it. How would you go about eliminating the play in the grip? Secondly - i have the Cold Steel Small Sword. And while i'm sure it's nothing like the originals, it still is a remarkably nimble (and fun) blade to handle. I can only imaging what the real thing must be like. Cheers!
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Post by bluetrain on May 18, 2017 11:39:40 GMT
Well, the thing about some Cold Steel reproduction swords is that they, Cold Steel, probably expect them to be put to rougher use than the originals ever were, at least judging from their own videos. So they need to be tougher than they might otherwise have needed to be.
Also, I think we all generally believe that the quality of the finish and some details of the blade (the taper in particular) for Cold Steel swords are merely okay but could certainly be a lot better, even if not at their price points. But we all still marvel at the quality and exquisite detail of some antique swords like this smallsword. So much so, that it's almost impossible to believe people could produce such things 250 years ago without modern equipment. Surely they had alien help.
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Uhlan
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Post by Uhlan on May 18, 2017 13:00:19 GMT
Interestingly, craftmanship has been in steady decline from about 1000BC, believe or not. Chinese, Indians, Persians, Greecs and Celts could produce stuff that even now is impossible to reproduce. I am not talking about enormous blocks of stone, no, stuff like Greec micro jewellery, Chinese bronze ritual objects. that kind of thing. I have this notion that after the introduction of iron, things slowly went to pot. We live in a world where time is money. That is killing for craftmanship. Handwork is taken over by CNC. Mass production killed the sense for quality in people, so most people do not know what quality means anymore. They just do not see it. Hence the quality of their lives is going down too. One gets that when one surrounds oneself with junk. Welcome to Ikea hell where everybody is the same, thinks the same, is soooo very very normal and zonked out on Ritalin. Ready for slaughter.
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Post by bluetrain on May 18, 2017 15:32:42 GMT
Most people never did see it. Only the very fortunate ever had high quality object like you speak of. Very, very few, in fact. That's still true, of course.
There is the idea present in some circles that at a certain point in the past, either 1965, 1950, 1910, pick a date, high quality products were available everywhere at reasonable prices. Well, that may have been but the reality was that relatively few people could afford such things, given that "reasonable prices" is a highly elastic term.
You can't blame the high proportion of imported junk now, either. At one time, imported products were considered better and therefore more costly. That's still true of many products. But there has always been a demand for junk because that's all some people can afford. We just used to make our own junk here in factories staffed with low-paid women. Factory work is women's work, you know.
Some things of very high quality aren't any better from a usage standpoint than things that cost less. Do you really believe a knife that goes for $250 is better than one that costs $25? Some do, whether or not they actually buy knives that cost that much.
I am reminded here of someone's advertising slogan: Made by hand by robots.
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Post by Cosmoline on May 24, 2017 20:09:49 GMT
I enjoy smacking things with the CS small sword. I think it would work well if it were remade into a spadroon, though oddly I understand their spadroon isn't too great.
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