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Post by ashesndust on May 5, 2017 13:20:23 GMT
As is my habit, I check the handles of my swords with a magnet to get an idea of the size/ thickness of the tang. I recently purchased the DSA Ranger and approached the sword with the magnet. It literally jumped out of my hand on to the handle. Something I have never seen before on any sword no matter how good the tang is. I tested this all over the handle and got the same result. At first I thought this must have the mightiest tang of any sword ever made, but of course this makes no sense. I am 99.999% sure this has a steel tube for a handle and that the ring in the centre is simply slipped down over the tube and tacked to the handle. Also explains why the handle is so round and I think the tube is simply squashed a bit at the bottom to give it some shape. Is anyone able to confirm that this is the case? I hope the tube has been filled with something to secure the tang in the void?? Anyone else done the magnet test on the handle? I honestly don't know what to think or say about this method of construction if my very strong suspicions are correct . . . .
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on May 5, 2017 13:53:49 GMT
I wonder what disadvantages there would be to using a metal handle as long at the sword handles well and is well balanced. It would eliminate the two disadvantages of wood which would be cracking and shrinkage. Interesting.
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Post by ashesndust on May 5, 2017 14:08:43 GMT
I wonder what disadvantages there would be to using a metal handle as long at the sword handles well and is well balanced. It would eliminate the two disadvantages of wood which would be cracking and shrinkage. Interesting. My major worry would be the unforgiving nature of a steel tang restrained in a steel tube. If the tang is under tension and held rigidly in the tube, the energy cannot be released evenly throughout the blade and tang through vibration. This could cause a stress fracture perhaps? I am no engineer but I am a little dubious about how well this design was thought through. There may however be some pros as you say. No wonder this is such a heavy sword  . |
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Post by nddave on May 5, 2017 14:37:22 GMT
Yea steel tube is a no go in my opinion. There's a reason wood has been used for sword handles for hundreds of years from various sword using cultures and the bulk of that has to do with proper shaping and ergonomics, easy to replace and shock absorption. Also having a metal handle adds to the weight of the sword and if done is usually only seen on ceremonial and decorative swords.
As far as the handle itself, you'd think one would be able to feel the difference between metal and wood even under a wrap as there would be more weight to the handle and a different shape. Well you did say you noticed the shape. Either way this is definitely a goofy design choice by DSA.
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on May 5, 2017 14:43:44 GMT
Well I would guess they have some kind of filler between the tang and the tube to take up the space and absorb any impact. The best way to find out is e-mail DSA and ask them. They may even have some pictures they can show you of the disassembled handle.
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Post by ashesndust on May 5, 2017 14:51:26 GMT
Good advice Gunnar . . . I thought this may have come up before or someone here may have already looked under the hood of one of these swords.
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Post by nddave on May 5, 2017 14:57:57 GMT
If it's hollow the only thing I could think of is some kind of thick epoxy that hardens like plastic. Also when you did the magnet test was the whole of the handle magnetic or just around the ring? Reason I ask is the ring itself may have a jacket or sleeve on either end that keeps it in place so it doesn't shift. So from that perspective the handle itself may be wood with a 1/2" or 1" long sleeve on both ends of the ring.
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Post by ashesndust on May 5, 2017 15:02:36 GMT
Whole darn thing . . . every square inch. Definitely a steel tube imo. Kind of hoping another owner could test theirs to see if they get the same results. I guess it is also possible that some wood shims have been wedged between the tube and the tang. That would probably work quite well allowing the forces to dissipate nicely. Only drawback then is the added weight.
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Post by Timo Nieminen on May 6, 2017 1:30:20 GMT
I am 99.999% sure this has a steel tube for a handle [...] I honestly don't know what to think or say about this method of construction if my very strong suspicions are correct . . . . There is historical precedent. If it's done properly, it's strong and effective. It's also possible to do it badly. If you can, disassemble and look inside. The good historical versions are either a wooden core with a metal covering (so quality depends on how good the wood core is, and how closely it fits the tang) or a resin filled metal grip (in which case, you automatically get a close fit to the tang). There are also historical solid metal handles. Sometimes cast directly onto the blade, and sometimes cast separately and the blade then glued in with resin or peened at the pommel (and hopefully resin or similar used to ensure a close fit to the tang). |
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Post by ashesndust on May 6, 2017 1:42:29 GMT
There is historical precedent. If it's done properly, it's strong and effective. It's also possible to do it badly. If you can, disassemble and look inside. The good historical versions are either a wooden core with a metal covering (so quality depends on how good the wood core is, and how closely it fits the tang) or a resin filled metal grip (in which case, you automatically get a close fit to the tang). There are also historical solid metal handles. Sometimes cast directly onto the blade, and sometimes cast separately and the blade then glued in with resin or peened at the pommel (and hopefully resin or similar used to ensure a close fit to the tang) Thanks . . . I am not aware of anyone having any issues with these swords and hopefully the construction was done right. Unfortunately, taking the sword apart is not an option for me (and probably most other owners) as I don't have the tools or the skills base to do so. Or rather more accurately, I could probably get it apart but I would have no chance of putting Humpty together again . |
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Post by Gunnar Wolfgard on May 6, 2017 13:04:44 GMT
There are a lot of test video's of this sword here and on YouTube showing extreme test cutting, beyond what DSA recommends with no real problems. Now I'm sure someone will come up with a story to try to prove otherwise, listen to the people who own them not the hearsays. If you're happy with the sword that's all that matters.
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LeMal
Member
Posts: 1,183
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Post by LeMal on May 6, 2017 13:57:26 GMT
I am 99.999% sure this has a steel tube for a handle [...] I honestly don't know what to think or say about this method of construction if my very strong suspicions are correct . . . . There is historical precedent. If it's done properly, it's strong and effective. It's also possible to do it badly. If you can, disassemble and look inside. The good historical versions are either a wooden core with a metal covering (so quality depends on how good the wood core is, and how closely it fits the tang) or a resin filled metal grip (in which case, you automatically get a close fit to the tang). There are also historical solid metal handles. Sometimes cast directly onto the blade, and sometimes cast separately and the blade then glued in with resin or peened at the pommel (and hopefully resin or similar used to ensure a close fit to the tang). Yup. Yet another example of there being manner of construction that ends up criticised from sword-snobbish quarters who assume something they're unfamiliar with couldn't possibly be historically authentic, or at least in its physics closely related. The very BEST "medieval" sword I ever had was often been mocked as "wrong" by snobs/purists, but it was a Fifty dollar Windlass "Viking" sword sold not even through MRL but Atlanta Cutlery circa 1998. At that price I thought I was just getting a wallhanger, which I was going to rehilt but just decoratively. Instead I found I'd gotten a great type X blade with incredible tang--and yet a hollow brass handle, totally too light and held on by a small nut to the screw on the "pommel" section. Totally structurally unsound, and plus the hilt was too light for the blade for Euro style handling. I drilled access holes in that pommel and filled it was hot-melt adhesive. Then of course properly sharpened the blade. It was--and if I had held on to it still would be--One of the best Euro cutters I ever had, with one of the best weights and handling, yet also probably the most indestructible. (And like an idiot I decided to sell it on eBay about a decade ago. Probably precisely because I was sick of being ripped on for loving it, and hadn't been exposed to enough examples of the historical nature of resin-filled hilts. Ach! C'est la vie.) |
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Post by ashesndust on May 6, 2017 14:08:07 GMT
There are a lot of test video's of this sword here and on YouTube showing extreme test cutting, beyond what DSA recommends with no real problems. Now I'm sure someone will come up with a story to try to prove otherwise, listen to the people who own them not the hearsays. If you're happy with the sword that's all that matters. So far very happy and there are other DSA swords I plan to add to my collection . Just a little surprised to find this steel handle build which is very different to the way all my other swords are made and what I had assumed would be the same for the Ranger. I am not naive though and I do know there have been issues with their swords in the past, mostly around how the tangs were made (very thin). Hopefully that has ended. The tangs in one of their latest videos look to be nice and beefy. |
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Post by demonskull on May 6, 2017 14:51:44 GMT
I havn't heard anyone mention anything but Euro swords in this conversation. The vast majority of yataghans and tulwars, I have handled had cast integral grips. There appeared to be little difference in the resulting vibrations to the hand than a typical Euro of the same era. I have never stripped one down and I personally prefer Euros but I've handled enough Middle Eastern weapons to not be turned off by a non-wood grip.
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Post by Croccifixio on May 8, 2017 2:41:38 GMT
Plenty of cutlass use iron grips and have a reputation for durability. I wouldn't worry all that much tbh, unless it's hollow and shakes around.
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